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(03-20-2012 09:56 PM)jacobystealshome Wrote: crazy talk
bonds could have retired before taking steroids and been a no doubt mortal lock 1st ballot guy
the evidence shows he started to take steroids before the 1999 season
400 stolen bases (400/400 guy...how many guys on that list? oh yea - none but him)
ops+ 164 (for measure: that would still be good for 11th of all-time)
3 mvp's, 2nd place another time (in a bogus loss to terry pendelton), top 5 in mvp voting 7 times
7 gold gloves
leader in WAR 7 times
top 5 in ops+ 9 times
Bonds, before steroids, was the best baseball player in the world, with no one that could argue that at the time besides maybe - maybe ken griffey
(sidenote: the 300/300 club, of which there are 6 members? 5 of them played at one time for the giants, dawson being the lone exception. bonds, his father and godfather are all on that list)
(03-20-2012 10:59 PM)Vols-1 Wrote: Looks pretty close to what Jeff Bagwell finished with in 14 full seasons and he's not a lock for the HOF.
1991 Rookie of the Year
(03-20-2012 11:11 PM)jacobystealshome Wrote: im sorry, tell me how 3 mvp's in 11 years compares to 1 mvp in 14? bags only had 3 tops 3 finishes.
and yes, bagwell compiled numbers are similar (stolen bases isnt in the same ballpark though. bonds had twice as many)
and he wasnt a great glove either, and you can pick any way of measuring that - gold gloves, sabermetrics, old school
(03-21-2012 12:23 AM)Vols-1 Wrote: Because the MVP is a popularity vote that usually goes the best player on a playoff team. Other multiple MVP winners like Dale Murphy who won two straight MVP's and five straight Gold Gloves will probably never be in the HOF either. All I'm telling you is the HOF usually votes for lifetime numbers(ie 500 homeruns,3000 hits) over award winners(ie Roger Maris).
(03-21-2012 08:59 AM)Haze28 Wrote: For years I have held a grudge against all of these players for using roods to have an edge over the rest of the league but after cooling down and thinking about it, this is what came to mind...
Where would baseball be right now if the home run races between Sosa and McGwire never happened? The MLB was in serious trouble after the strike and many fans stopped caring about the game. I personally never had more fun watching the game than I did during the last 40-50 games of the 1998 season and many people will probably disagree with me but I would not be surprised if steroid use was encouraged by owners/mlb execs.
I think most of those guys should eventually make the hall but they should make a separate wing for the steroid era players. The ones that blatantly lied under oath should be made to wait longer though.