[warcraftin]

Where are we given these rights? Unless the product was false advertised, dangerous or broken, the BBB shouldn't be contacted just because you didn't like the product.

BBB is private owned business that helps consumers communicate with businesses. They help educate consumers on certain businesses and their business practices.

It's not a US governmental agency that finds guilty or innocence. They just put people in contact with each other and keep a record of how companies respond to complaints and the type of complaints.

I am sorry for taking this off-topic. Whenever I had a consumer complaint that could not be directly addressed by the company. I ALWAYS received a thoughtful educated response via mail or phone call from the company when going through the BBB.

Sorry to derail the thread with the BBB recommendation.


MOVING FORWARD!
I look forward to Upper Deck officially licensed products in the future. SPA and Exquisite are my favorite brands. I would love to see an end to Sticker Autographs!

[biglump007]

I just don't understand what complaints a consumer could really have other than missing hit or jersey/patches/autos missing from hits that are suppose to have them and damaged cards. I think the main subject is the designing of the cards or I guess really the lack of designing. As far as missing hits or the other complaints that is a quality control issue and I've very seldom if ever heard of any card company not offering a replacement of some sort. In this regard I would see no need to contact the BBB if replacement was maid. As far as design issues which is more of the subject I'm concerned with how or why would the BBB get involved. To put it bluntly of you open a box and are not satisfied with the design that's your fault and you should have taken the time to do your research ahead of time. If its the quality of hit received then I don't see that as an issue to contact the BBB about either that's the chance we all take with boxes.

As far as I'm concerned my issue is card companies seem to worried about trying to come up with the next new 200.00 a pack product instead of taking the time to sit down and really work on the design of what really make them money which is products like certified, absolute, threads, finest, platinum. Those mid range boxes are a manufacturers bread and butter and year after year they continue to neglect the design quality thinking that collectors will just buy them up because they always have. Look at this years contenders as opposed to years past, Panini knows contests are one of if not the biggest sellers they have yet the cards look like they were designed in an elementary art class by kids with crayons. I personally think you get rid of gold standard use some of the design attributes from it minus the gold pieces and gems which have nothing to do with football and apply what's left to contenders. IMO the gold mirrored design would make a nice contenders design or atleast a better one than what this years looks like. And don't misunderstand and think I'm just bashing Panini because I'm not Topps is not better. As I've said Rising Rookies is in my mind a unneeded waste of card stock with a very poor remedial design, and to me prime isn't much better with cheap look. Bottom line is manufacturers just simply need to spend not just more time but more quality time at the drawing board instead of just trying to slap something together.

[melcmd]

As far as I'm concerned my issue is card companies seem to worried about trying to come up with the next new 200.00 a pack product instead of taking the time to sit down and really work on the design of what really make them money which is products like certified, absolute, threads, finest, platinum. Those mid range boxes are a manufacturers bread and butter and year after year they continue to neglect the design quality thinking that collectors will just buy them up because they always have. Look at this years contenders as opposed to years past, Panini knows contests are one of if not the biggest sellers they have yet the cards look like they were designed in an elementary art class by kids with crayons. I personally think you get rid of gold standard use some of the design attributes from it minus the gold pieces and gems which have nothing to do with football and apply what's left to contenders. IMO the gold mirrored design would make a nice contenders design or atleast a better one than what this years looks like. And don't misunderstand and think I'm just bashing Panini because I'm not Topps is not better. As I've said Rising Rookies is in my mind a unneeded waste of card stock with a very poor remedial design, and to me prime isn't much better with cheap look. Bottom line is manufacturers just simply need to spend not just more time but more quality time at the drawing board instead of just trying to slap something together.

I agree the trend has been to ignore the mid range products ( even though Certified was in the top 2 products released by Panini last year).

Exquisite set a high end standard that National Treasures has not matched. They will clearly make more by selling a lot of midlevel than a few high end .

This is the first year I've seen both Panini (Prestige) and Topps (Rising Rookies) put out low end products that made Sage and the old Topps Total look like mid range products!

[mcleodfive]

I just don't understand what complaints a consumer could really have other than missing hit or jersey/patches/autos missing from hits that are suppose to have them and damaged cards. I think the main subject is the designing of the cards or I guess really the lack of designing. As far as missing hits or the other complaints that is a quality control issue and I've very seldom if ever heard of any card company not offering a replacement of some sort. In this regard I would see no need to contact the BBB if replacement was maid. As far as design issues which is more of the subject I'm concerned with how or why would the BBB get involved. To put it bluntly of you open a box and are not satisfied with the design that's your fault and you should have taken the time to do your research ahead of time. If its the quality of hit received then I don't see that as an issue to contact the BBB about either that's the chance we all take with boxes.

As far as I'm concerned my issue is card companies seem to worried about trying to come up with the next new 200.00 a pack product instead of taking the time to sit down and really work on the design of what really make them money which is products like certified, absolute, threads, finest, platinum. Those mid range boxes are a manufacturers bread and butter and year after year they continue to neglect the design quality thinking that collectors will just buy them up because they always have. Look at this years contenders as opposed to years past, Panini knows contests are one of if not the biggest sellers they have yet the cards look like they were designed in an elementary art class by kids with crayons. I personally think you get rid of gold standard use some of the design attributes from it minus the gold pieces and gems which have nothing to do with football and apply what's left to contenders. IMO the gold mirrored design would make a nice contenders design or atleast a better one than what this years looks like. And don't misunderstand and think I'm just bashing Panini because I'm not Topps is not better. As I've said Rising Rookies is in my mind a unneeded waste of card stock with a very poor remedial design, and to me prime isn't much better with cheap look. Bottom line is manufacturers just simply need to spend not just more time but more quality time at the drawing board instead of just trying to slap something together.

+1000000000 couldn't of said it better!!

[biglump007]

I agree the trend has been to ignore the mid range products ( even though Certified was in the top 2 products released by Panini last year).

Exquisite set a high end standard that National Treasures has not matched. They will clearly make more by selling a lot of midlevel than a few high end .

This is the first year I've seen both Panini (Prestige) and Topps (Rising Rookies) put out low end products that made Sage and the old Topps Total look like mid range products!

Certfied was one of if not my favorite product last year and while I have to admit it slip dramatically this year when you look at what it's competing with to this point I have to say its my favorite again this year, that's not to say it will stay that way but who knows. I know contenders nor sp authentic will be getting any of my box money. National Treasures last year just had design flaws from the get go, part of the set was nicely designed ( Rpa ) while others seemed to be an after thought ( base and ring of honor/HOF insert ). I think if companies would stop trying to flood the market by dropping a new product every two or three weeks ( Rising Rookies and Prestige ) and instead focus on putting a more quality product say every six weeks they could still hit the sales quota they set for themselves. Collectors are more apt to buy a larger amount of a quality product than they are to buy several lesser products.

Sorry to ramble

[pbean]

this is kind of a double edged sword ..... years ago we had 2-4 releases a year ..... in the 90's that changed to 10-15 ..... in the 2,000's that changed to what we have today ..... cardboard mayhem

we all "told" the manufacturers we wanted more hits, to accomodate this they had to buy more autographs and mem, which in turn cost them more money, so they put out more releases to bring in more income to pay for this and so on and so on and so on .....

why folks buy half the sets that are out there today is beyond me ???

the true mainstays of the industry are Topps Chrome, Finest, Elite, Crown Royale, and Contenders.

Looking back at BV's for the past decade + they have surpassed all brands in regards to "value" per box, higher BV's on true RC's on average, and harder to get autos of prime players (again higher BV's)

all these other brands are basically "fluff" IMHO

as for Upper Deck, again in their desperate ways they have they flooded this years base release with "SP's", tons of manufactured lettermen of unknown players etc. etc. etc. just to try to entice us into liking a Collegiate based product.

I do not miss them, and never will ..... they are one of the main reasons this hobby crashed in the early 1990's, flooding a market with new products, creating a "false demand" for RC's of star players that were completely over-produced, and if you want to talk about atrocious CS ..... they're the King of the Castle

do the manufacturers need to change ..... probably so, but try contacting them directly ..... politely address your concerns, tell them what you'd like to see in a product (realistically) and call it a day.

no one forced us to buy all these "off brands" and there's been a ton of bombs out there these past two years ..... just my $.02

pbean

---

Sorry to ramble

if excellent posts are considered "rambling", ramble on my friend

[melcmd]

Certfied was one of if not my favorite product last year and while I have to admit it slip dramatically this year when you look at what it's competing with to this point I have to say its my favorite again this year, that's not to say it will stay that way but who knows. I know contenders nor sp authentic will be getting any of my box money. National Treasures last year just had design flaws from the get go, part of the set was nicely designed ( Rpa ) while others seemed to be an after thought ( base and ring of honor/HOF insert ). I think if companies would stop trying to flood the market by dropping a new product every two or three weeks ( Rising Rookies and Prestige ) and instead focus on putting a more quality product say every six weeks they could still hit the sales quota they set for themselves. Collectors are more apt to buy a larger amount of a quality product than they are to buy several lesser products.

Sorry to ramble

I agree with you 100%.....almost. Lol. I can't stand the design of the Freshman Fabric cards, even though I like the on card autos. The FOTG is not bad, even though I would have picked a better list of veterans for the Prime set. The Gold and Emerald patches aren't too bad......just too small.

And we can't forget all the redemptions. Panini should advertise, "A redemption in every box!" , which seems about right.

[biglump007]

I agree with you 100%.....almost. Lol. I can't stand the design of the Freshman Fabric cards, even though I like the on card autos. The FOTG is not bad, even though I would have picked a better list of veterans for the Prime set. The Gold and Emerald patches aren't too bad......just too small.

And we can't forget all the redemptions. Panini should advertise, "A redemption in every box!" , which seems about right.

Oh I agree I think they went from a nice design of the freshman fabric set last year and instead offline improvements they went the other way. I think this years set is just to much wasted space with the big white background.

The on card autos are nice but let's be honest most of us knew when they announced the on cards the product would be flooded with redemption which like you I can't stand.

And I totally agree on the fotg, I don't see how you leave out Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and even the HOF and retired players are watered down compared to past years. Even though I'm doing the set and it's costing a ton I would still rather spend the extra money in my NFL die cuts to have more guys like Derrick Thomas, Montana, Marino, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith, Jim Brown ect ect ect. There is a lot I don't like about this years design and I honestly think it took a step backwards after taking a step or two forward last year from the 09 set, but compared to the other products out there right now I think it's still near the top.

I'm anxiously awaiting the Topps Precision to see what it looks like in hand. From what I have seen it really has a nice design and I've always liked the silver on black autos.

---

this is kind of a double edged sword ..... years ago we had 2-4 releases a year ..... in the 90's that changed to 10-15 ..... in the 2,000's that changed to what we have today ..... cardboard mayhem

we all "told" the manufacturers we wanted more hits, to accomodate this they had to buy more autographs and mem, which in turn cost them more money, so they put out more releases to bring in more income to pay for this and so on and so on and so on .....

why folks buy half the sets that are out there today is beyond me ???

the true mainstays of the industry are Topps Chrome, Finest, Elite, Crown Royale, and Contenders.

Looking back at BV's for the past decade + they have surpassed all brands in regards to "value" per box, higher BV's on true RC's on average, and harder to get autos of prime players (again higher BV's)

all these other brands are basically "fluff" IMHO

as for Upper Deck, again in their desperate ways they have they flooded this years base release with "SP's", tons of manufactured lettermen of unknown players etc. etc. etc. just to try to entice us into liking a Collegiate based product.

I do not miss them, and never will ..... they are one of the main reasons this hobby crashed in the early 1990's, flooding a market with new products, creating a "false demand" for RC's of star players that were completely over-produced, and if you want to talk about atrocious CS ..... they're the King of the Castle

do the manufacturers need to change ..... probably so, but try contacting them directly ..... politely address your concerns, tell them what you'd like to see in a product (realistically) and call it a day.

no one forced us to buy all these "off brands" and there's been a ton of bombs out there these past two years ..... just my $.02

pbean

---

if excellent posts are considered "rambling", ramble on my friend

I really have to agree on Upper Deck aside from last years sp authentic I've not seen much I couldn't live without. I liked the sweet spot design from last year to a point but don't to much care from it this year I think the design is really lacking in any imagination. I personally didn't care for last years exquisite either I thought it was a major step backwards from years past and the TBD auto redemption are just simply a joke. From what I've seen out of them this year with their base product, sweet spot, and the previews of SP Authentic I think Upper Deck is really going to struggle with commanding any type of market share.

[jplarson]

the true mainstays of the industry are Topps Chrome, Finest, Elite, Crown Royale, and Contenders.

+1

I've come to the point where I only break Finest and Chrome. I like the design from the Finest product this year, though I thought the auto patches were better in 2010. I liked it when they "sunk" the autograph into the thicker cards, it makes it less likely to rub off in my opinion. In 2011 they did it to the jumbo relics but not the patches.

My big complaint from this year is that the refractors have looked almost non-existant on some cards. Some of them when put out on a table the rainbow effect is obvious. Other ones it's nearly impossible to tell and only having the refractor word on the back confirms.

I do miss sets with giant checklists though. I remember how much fun building the 1991 Score baseball set was. I liked seeing the late 80s sets where offensive lineman got cards and you could put the Bears defense up against the Niners offense. I'd like to see a product with a big checklist organized by team with rookies integrated with their teams and a subset with some older/newer legends like Aikman, Montana, B Sanders, etc. Get a little crazy give a short-print variation with those legends if they joined another team like Deion Sanders with him on the Falcons as the regular issue and 49ers/Cowbows/Redskins/Ravens variations.

Okay, going a bit off-topic here but this would be something to get me interested in more than these two card sets.