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Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
12-28-2011, 02:29 PM
Post: #11
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
I agree with the last two statements made. Panini is not total crap, really kind of on par for what was expected.

But having the options is a must for the sake of the hobby. The only nice card designs I like are from the higher end products that Panini makes, when I could find the sweet card designs before in cheaper products when UD and Topps produced NBA cards.

The hobby needs multiple producers of NBA cards, because while Panini is on par, it has no desire for inovation and ground breaking designs without that competition. Lets see them do the same in Baseball as they have in basketball and Topps will leave them in the dust.

As for all 09-10 UD and Topps products, I don't think that they need to be used in comparison to other products. We all know that both UD and Topps rushed these products in order to meet the deadline of losing the NBA license that was bearing down that year and to move the sticker autographs and whatever else was in their vaults.

I mean I pulled an 07-08 Chronology Lebrons card from a 09-10 UD blaster and that year of UD is also known for missing hits and even an abundance of error cards. To say the least, UD let their quality control go out the window for the sake of releasing some product in time for that year.

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12-28-2011, 02:38 PM (This post was last modified: 12-28-2011 02:55 PM by jpleazme805.)
Post: #12
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
I've enjoyed Panini's products, but most are overpriced. WAX drops in value a few months after they are released. Why do I want to buy a product for $200 a box, only to watch it fall to $100-150 a few months later? Not saying all products, but a few.. same goes with UD. I've forced myself to step back & watch prices of wax before I drop that $500 that it took me 2 months to save.

MONOPOLY - it might be an inside deal. Backyard deals & insider trading is done all the time. Congress does it. The military does it. The educational system does it. There was a big raid here in San Diego regarding multi-million dollar contracts for the school system. Contractors wined & dined the voters on the school board, so they can win the contracts. One contractor paid $1,600 for 4 Charger tickets. Can we say kickback? Somebody could of went to the NBA Commissioner & proposed the contract thing, to raise prices, limit product, by forcing UD & Topps out. I may be wrong, but Topps has been hurting for a few years money-wise.. Panini, having tons of money, the new face of NBA cards... jumped in to save the basketball card market. In doing so, allegedly, gave extra money to those involved in voting Panini in & the others out... creating a kickback...

It should be considered UNETHICAL to have a MONOPOLY

I would like to see the head-to-head marketing & products before I see a Monopoly on one of America's Favorite Pass times... Collecting CARDBOARD.
Now, discussing similar designs... I think it is ok to have similar designs that cross over different sports, but same photos over different products in same year or different years, is just wrong! Card manufacturers should mark those photos as used and choose a different photo. There are thousands of photos that the NBA takes of their players, not to mention video, that can be turned into photos. If the same photo is used, it should be a for an anniversary card of some kind.

Check out the two Farmar cards below. Same photo, two different products. One serialized, one not. I don't understand how the serialized on was available in packs, while the non-serialized one is assumed a redemption.. I am not sure about the one I bought below. I have 4 redemptions for the non-serialized one that have been outstanding since 2009 & 2010. It's a sticker auto!! UD could of slapped a sticker-auto on any card & sent it to me.. but no, they sit on it. I tried to combine the 4 cards & get one replacement card, but the customer service rep tells me that replacements are at random for low dollar cards. If you have the OPG, check the prices.. Why would the serialized card /10 be priced lower than the non-serialized card?

Same photo & design used in both SP Signatures & SP GAMEUSED... which do not considered either as high-end.

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12-28-2011, 03:16 PM
Post: #13
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
(12-28-2011 02:38 PM)jpleazme805 Wrote:  Now, discussing similar designs... I think it is ok to have similar designs that cross over different sports, but same photos over different products in same year or different years, is just wrong! Card manufacturers should mark those photos as used and choose a different photo. There are thousands of photos that the NBA takes of their players, not to mention video, that can be turned into photos. If the same photo is used, it should be a for an anniversary card of some kind.

Check out the two Farmar cards below. Same photo, two different products. One serialized, one not. I don't understand how the serialized on was available in packs, while the non-serialized one is assumed a redemption.. I am not sure about the one I bought below. I have 4 redemptions for the non-serialized one that have been outstanding since 2009 & 2010. It's a sticker auto!! UD could of slapped a sticker-auto on any card & sent it to me.. but no, they sit on it. I tried to combine the 4 cards & get one replacement card, but the customer service rep tells me that replacements are at random for low dollar cards. If you have the OPG, check the prices.. Why would the serialized card /10 be priced lower than the non-serialized card?

Same photo & design used in both SP Signatures & SP GAMEUSED... which do not considered either as high-end.

[Image: FARMAR_SPSIGNATURE_60-99.jpg][Image: SPGU_0910_FARMAR_REGULAR2.jpg][Image: SPGU_0910_FARMAR_05-10.jpg]

I also wasn't fond that they used the same insert set name in two different products. Even the base between those two products look the same, just the back and the stamp is different. It was very lazy, even rushed, it was still lazy.

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12-28-2011, 03:55 PM
Post: #14
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
If we want to talk about using the same designs - just look at 1999-00 Upper Deck, Upper Deck God reserve and upper deck encore. All three are exactly the same. ditto with fleer tradition and fleer gossy from 2000-01. At least panini is not repeating the exact same design (with the exception of Rookies & Stars and Rookies & Stars longevity which is deliberate - heck, even when it was donrussplayofflp it was the same).

As to the monopoly, Panini's original intent was to enter the nba market as a third string company. It was not their fault that Upper Deck and topps decided to opt out thus making panini the sole company. And considering topps past performances (and excuses) with NBA basketball, this is no surprise. I fould it funny that the week after upper deck declined to renew their NBA license citing financial stress that they signed an exclusive contract with NCAA/CLC. Now there is a monopoly. Ditto with MLS - Upper deck is currently the only company to do cards for this sport and has been the only company to do so, yet there have been complaints about monopoly there.



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12-28-2011, 10:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-29-2011 12:39 PM by tmakact7.)
Post: #15
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
When it comes to Panini and it's designs, I'm happy with what they've been doing. Every year they change up the sets. Just go and look at the different sets each year. Panini is coming out with fresh stuff each year. Basketball seems to be the debut for some of these sets (which if they do well then they work them into other sports like Gold Standard). I'm really excited they're bring back Hoops this year.

Personally, I don't like the direction the other sports are doing in the hobby, overproducing. Look at the NFL, they have about 50 different sets to get AU and GU cards of these players. Basketball products had half that amount of sets. Baseball is quickly becoming the same way as football with UD, Leaf, and Panini trying to take a piece of the pie from Topps. So, I'm happy Panini is a monopoly on NBA cards, for now. For the longest time everyone talked about they're being fewer products. I think the Panini is listening to their collectors to see what the collectors want. Look at this year’s high-end products only going to be around $200 a box compared to $450 for NT, and the low-end will be $2 a pack ($1 retail). Isn't that what the collectors want, cheaper products?

I know not everyone is happy with the designs and/or redemptions of some of these products. If that’s true then don’t buy that set. For me, each year I find a few sets I like and go after cards of those sets (like last year I really like Gold Standard and Elite Black). Panini, UD, and Topps can’t please everyone. Is there ANY company out there that has 100% satisfaction?

I think the real reason people want Topps and Upper Deck back because they miss to old days of having a choice of which of the 50, or so, sets that were out there to choose from, and which company to invest their money into.

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12-29-2011, 03:06 AM
Post: #16
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
Wow......LoL, somebody has to be working for Panini in this thread. Thats all I'm saying.

The following sets below were all rushed and created to rid each companies surplus of memorabilia & autograph stickers before their contract was up:
08'09 Topps Signature
09'10 SP Signature Edition
09'10 SP Game Used

If you owned either company, you know you'd very well do the same thing they did. Can you really blame them? What did you expect them to do in the remaining time they had left?

With UD/Topps lackluster customer service (which is my only complaint with either card company), I am willing to swallow that bad characteristic because when it's all said and done, at the end of the day....they know how to make a basketball card. period. On the other hand, I cannot say the same thing for Panini, I cannot swallow my dislikes for them (which is more than 1) and STILL buy their boxes/cards.

In a very basic way of putting it, when I bought UD/Topps basketball boxes I knew the price was high AND I knew it's not an easy task to make your money back in a box of cards (not why I'm in this hobby, I purely love collecting basketball cards because I love...basketball) but what I also knew I was getting was a box of exquisitely designed basketball cards that would satisfy my pure needs/love for collecting wax.

Now, when I bought a box of Panini cards, I know the price was high/I'm definitely overpaying and I know it's a great deal harder to make your money back because I ain't pulling no MJ or LBJ autograph but after I finish opening the box, am I happy with the overall product? Am I happy with the base cards? Am I happy with the inserts? Am I happy with the designs of the memorabilia cards and autograph cards? Heck, am I happy with the quality of the card itself even? (Because I've noticed now, Panini cards tend to bend, even from a fresh pack) Hell to the no! I feel like I'm blatantly being robbed. I never felt like this after opening a box of UD/Topps cards.

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12-29-2011, 11:32 AM
Post: #17
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
Upper Deck & Topps didn't choose to stop producing NBA cards, the NBA chose to award the contract to Panini exclusively from the 2009/10 season.

The good news is that both Topps and Upper Deck have expressed interest in re-entering the market when Panini's contract ends. Just a few days ago someone on Twitter asked Topps if they would be going for the NBA contract in the future and Topps suggested that the person contact the NBA and express their desire to see Topps NBA cards again.

When the contract was announced the NBA simply described it as a multi-year contract. I am not sure if anyone knows whether it was officially announced when this contract ends?

Basically, if you want to see Upper Deck and Topps back in the NBA game then email, call and write the NBA and let them know. It is about the only thing we can do right now.

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12-29-2011, 11:34 AM
Post: #18
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
From what I heard, it was through the 2012-13 season, a 4 year deal.

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12-29-2011, 01:25 PM
Post: #19
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
(12-29-2011 11:34 AM)xstreaminsanity Wrote:  From what I heard, it was through the 2012-13 season, a 4 year deal.

I had heard the same but could find no "official" source (i.e. Panini or the NBA) that states that.

I don't have the same dislike for Panini that a lot of people seem to have but I would still love to see Topps and Upper Deck back in the game.

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12-30-2011, 10:28 AM
Post: #20
RE: Is it familiarity and fear of change, or something else?
(12-29-2011 11:32 AM)dodgytrousers Wrote:  Upper Deck & Topps didn't choose to stop producing NBA cards, the NBA chose to award the contract to Panini exclusively from the 2009/10 season.

The good news is that both Topps and Upper Deck have expressed interest in re-entering the market when Panini's contract ends. Just a few days ago someone on Twitter asked Topps if they would be going for the NBA contract in the future and Topps suggested that the person contact the NBA and express their desire to see Topps NBA cards again.

When the contract was announced the NBA simply described it as a multi-year contract. I am not sure if anyone knows whether it was officially announced when this contract ends?

Basically, if you want to see Upper Deck and Topps back in the NBA game then email, call and write the NBA and let them know. It is about the only thing we can do right now.

Yup, the greedy self centered NBA commish awarded the contract to Panini over UD & Topps. Not because he thought they would do a better job but because they paid the most money and are an internationally based company (Italy, right?). NBA is all for overseas now. Think Stern was ever thinking about us basketball card collectors? He don't give a damn. All about that green.

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