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Wish book price meant something
#21

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-27-2011, 10:39 PM)branesergen Wrote: I disagree. Ebay did not kill the market value no more than walmart killed the value of beans. Where I place blame is on Becketts failure to realize that ebay is part of the market. And also peoples failure to realize that ebay is wholesale and BV is retail pricing. If a cards print run is /100 and you can assume 50% have been pulled from packs (50 cards) and 25 of those have been sold on ebay for $10 you cant tell me that the other 25 have sold for $100 to give Beckett a market BV of $100 for the card. If the other 25 have sold at shops, shows, flea markets or any other type of retail location for $25 then the corrected BV should read $25 not $100. When I pull a card that has a $100 BV on it I instantly tell people when asked its worth "It books for $100 but its probably only worth $10-$15" because a cards true worth is what someone else will pay for it. If a card sits there for a year trying to be sold for $100 and no one buys it obviously its not worth $100. Only thing I believe ebay did was take a local market and make it global for everyone thus killing the local market. Combine that with outrageous box prices, sub par hits and its no wonder brick and mortar places rarely exist now. A shop cant pay its bills buying $200 boxes of cards only to be able to make $100 off them.
Well said. +1

Looking for 2008 Topps Darren McFadden #346B (FB) and Jonathan Stewart #348B (No Helmet)!
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#22

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-28-2011, 12:34 AM)branesergen Wrote: Like Chad said earlier - You go to the shops for the hands on experience and the human interaction. I will visit a shop every week if I can. Not only is it more fun it also supports your local economy.
I understand that but dont you think its a bit over rated? Ive met more people who are passionate about the here at Beckett and other trading forums than card shops. As for supporting the local economy Im all for that but I already do that by going to local bars, restaurants, clothing stores, etc.

Basically all Im saying is if I walk into a card shop and see a card I need and its for sale at $75 and I grab my smartphone and run a search on eBay for the same card and its $40 and I give the card shop the opportunity the chance to match and they decline then what? Do I pay the extra $35 just because or click buy it now on the bay and save $35? I would much more prefer to just give the card shop $40 and get the card right then and there but they need to make a profit to survive. Im all for bsing and having interaction with fellow hobbyists but when it comes down to the bottom line I have to look out for myself.
Unique Cards:
Dolphins - 6000+
Marino - 2140
Zach Thomas - 869
Jason Taylor - 749
Lamar Miller - 341
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#23

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-28-2011, 12:52 AM)bakerman8419 Wrote: I understand that but dont you think its a bit over rated? Ive met more people who are passionate about the here at Beckett and other trading forums than card shops. As for supporting the local economy Im all for that but I already do that by going to local bars, restaurants, clothing stores, etc.

Basically all Im saying is if I walk into a card shop and see a card I need and its for sale at $75 and I grab my smartphone and run a search on eBay for the same card and its $40 and I give the card shop the opportunity the chance to match and they decline then what? Do I pay the extra $35 just because or click buy it now on the bay and save $35? I would much more prefer to just give the card shop $40 and get the card right then and there but they need to make a profit to survive. Im all for bsing and having interaction with fellow hobbyists but when it comes down to the bottom line I have to look out for myself.

and I agree...and I am a heart a collector so I understand and thats why we usually sell stuff at online price. We also have alot of regualrs who dont shop online at all. I am alwasy willing to work on prices...and they shops that are out of business where run by ignorant people who dont believe in change.
[Image: kc.png]

THE KEARY COLBERT HOARD NOW HAS OVER 500 DIFFERENT CARDS!
& MORE THAN 1500+ WITH 500+ AUTOS
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#24

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-27-2011, 10:59 PM)Sajman01 Wrote: The issue is just as much the consumer's problem as it is Becketts or Ebay. If Beckett tells you the card is worth 100 and you sell it for 10, how is that Becketts fault?

People are lazy, they want to do as little work as possible so that 100$ auto goes up on ebay the night they bust the box in a 99c auction. If they would instead put up a set price on a 7 day auction that ended approx 1 hour after the teams game on Sunday against a weak opponent (huge stats) or a rival (emotional) they'd be far more likely to get top dollar.

Two weeks ago Tebow base rookies were pulling 12$-15$, now you'd be lucky to get 5$. You have to do your homework.
Most collectors also make the mistake of thinking the best money lays in high end hits, it doesn't. The money lays in base rookies Topps Chrome for football, Bowman Chrome for baseball. Not everyone can afford that 100$ patch auto but you can be sure every male in Dallas under the age of 21 has a base DeMarco Murray RC. But packaging and shipping alot of cards and researching the best time to sell takes alot of work, and well......people are lazy.
lol im yet to get a base Murray other then base autos but then again im not under 21. But ya i see what your saying and it makes sense. I sold a Murray card that was going for 100-125 the week before his game with buffalo, i put it up and it went for 212 and some change a few hours after the game.

Good games drive prices it seems like, and bad games drop it. I have seen too many players other then legendary vets where the price fluctuated so much. Now a guy thats been around the block seems to settle in after a while, like Tony Romo. His rookie auto's sell consistently for 250-400+ regularly when they pop up good game or not, but if it were say Cam Newton his stuff will drastically increase with a great game or record like when he broke mannings rookie total yard record, or go way down the first sign of injury or a streak of bad games.
(12-28-2011, 12:56 AM)chads-cards Wrote: and I agree...and I am a heart a collector so I understand and thats why we usually sell stuff at online price. We also have alot of regualrs who dont shop online at all. I am alwasy willing to work on prices...and they shops that are out of business where run by ignorant people who dont believe in change.
Those shops growing and staying in business all have big ebay sales and/or stores online, changing with the times. I am not sure if i can name em by name here, but you know who they are and they are freaking huge.
[Image: Dmurray29.jpg]
PC: Dez Bryant, Felix Jones, Demarco Murray.
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#25

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-28-2011, 12:04 AM)bakerman8419 Wrote: I love eBay and other online places to purchase cards. Card shops are rip offs IMHO.
Totally agree about online. 10 years ago there use to be 7 or 8 local card shops in my area. Now there are two, one is closing in January.

I just spent nearly $60 for bowman sterling pack & magnetic one touch from my LCS on 12/26 for my son (to support them). I freguently purchase one touch and storage boxes as well from them. But when I wanted to get some 2010 Crown Royale boxes. They are asking $110 and can't budge.

Went home and spent $660 at Dave's online store for a 12 box case of Crown Royale. Savings of nearly $660 with no tax.....Oh and Dave's is giving me a free 100 pack Gravity box of Panini Adrenaline XL basketball. I debated getting (2) cases at the price....

Online shopping +660
LCS -660


- Collecting Navorro Bowman - http://tinyurl.com/bowmancollection
Total Cards = (236/349) 67%
Auto 59/83 Jersey 4/4
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#26

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-28-2011, 01:31 AM)warcraftin Wrote: Totally agree about online. 10 years ago there use to be 7 or 8 local card shops in my area. Now there are two, one is closing in January.

I just spent nearly $60 for bowman sterling pack & magnetic one touch from my LCS on 12/26 for my son (to support them). I freguently purchase one touch and storage boxes as well from them. But when I wanted to get some 2010 Crown Royale boxes. They are asking $110 and can't budge.

Went home and spent $660 at Dave's online store for a 12 box case of Crown Royale. Savings of nearly $660 with no tax.....Oh and Dave's is giving me a free 100 pack Gravity box of Panini Adrenaline XL basketball. I debated getting (2) cases at the price....

Online shopping +660
LCS -660

Let us know if you get the case hit out of that case. Ever notice they sell singles too? How do you think they get those singles? By opening your case and boxing up the rest after they pulled the case hit. Packaging tape and combining 2 cases makes it a "sealed case"

Online shopping = You probably got case searched
LCS = Cant afford to case search when ordering only 1 or 2 cases
Collecting = Peyton Manning
Manning PC
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#27

RE: Wish book price meant something
I agree with that, thus the reason you dont shop with large online retailers. There are small Mom and Pop online retailers out there that will pull your box out of a fresh case that just came in the door on a youtube video for you.
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#28

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-27-2011, 10:39 PM)branesergen Wrote: I disagree. Ebay did not kill the market value no more than walmart killed the value of beans. Where I place blame is on Becketts failure to realize that ebay is part of the market. And also peoples failure to realize that ebay is wholesale and BV is retail pricing. If a cards print run is /100 and you can assume 50% have been pulled from packs (50 cards) and 25 of those have been sold on ebay for $10 you cant tell me that the other 25 have sold for $100 to give Beckett a market BV of $100 for the card. If the other 25 have sold at shops, shows, flea markets or any other type of retail location for $25 then the corrected BV should read $25 not $100. When I pull a card that has a $100 BV on it I instantly tell people when asked its worth "It books for $100 but its probably only worth $10-$15" because a cards true worth is what someone else will pay for it. If a card sits there for a year trying to be sold for $100 and no one buys it obviously its not worth $100. Only thing I believe ebay did was take a local market and make it global for everyone thus killing the local market. Combine that with outrageous box prices, sub par hits and its no wonder brick and mortar places rarely exist now. A shop cant pay its bills buying $200 boxes of cards only to be able to make $100 off them.
If Beckett priced cards according to Ebay.
Then card values would drop to nothing.
Beckett says one month card X is worth $100. People are gonna wanna pay less. So then Beckett drops the price again. Then people are gonna wanna pay half of that. And so on......

I think Beckett keeps ebay prices out of the equation is a GOOD thing.

(12-28-2011, 12:04 AM)bakerman8419 Wrote: I love eBay and other online places to purchase cards. Card shops are rip offs IMHO.

I also dislike the premise that eBay/online stores have ruined the hobby. To me that sounds like "hey ebay and similar sources are putting us out of business because we can't keep up." Times change and without eBay I wouldnt own anywhere near the amount of cards I own. It allows people worldwide to ALL go to one place to sell or buy cards. It gives virtually an unlimited amount of options that NO card shop could ever offer. You may have 10 Marino's I need but eBay will have 100's. It gives me more options and choices which allows me to get the most bang for MY buck. In fact Im surprised anyone goes to a card shop anymore. EVERYTHING is cheaper online somewhere else.

Then to think of all the potential Jason Taylor 1/1s out there that card shops may have buried in their storage room because they can't move the product they have out on display bothers me. Card shops are all about profit to survive so they wont lower prices on anything unless its absolutely necessary which means a card I can buy on eBay for $10 will have a $30 price tag. Sorry but my money is more important than supporting any lcs. May sound rude but its true. Yes in some instances card shop owners may give deals to regulars but what about the casual customer? If you want my money then give me a fair deal.

As for Beckett's pricing all I would want is more consistency. I hate when a card sells for $100 but books at $150 while a card that books at $300 sells for $100. It creates the dreaded sv vs. bv debate that everyone hates.
I like Ebay for the fact that I can find cards I normally wouldn't find. Shot I doubt my Rice collection would be HALF of what it is today if NOT for ebay.
But I think using that as a way to determine price is a bad idea.
(12-28-2011, 12:52 AM)bakerman8419 Wrote: I understand that but dont you think its a bit over rated? Ive met more people who are passionate about the here at Beckett and other trading forums than card shops. As for supporting the local economy Im all for that but I already do that by going to local bars, restaurants, clothing stores, etc.

Basically all Im saying is if I walk into a card shop and see a card I need and its for sale at $75 and I grab my smartphone and run a search on eBay for the same card and its $40 and I give the card shop the opportunity the chance to match and they decline then what? Do I pay the extra $35 just because or click buy it now on the bay and save $35? I would much more prefer to just give the card shop $40 and get the card right then and there but they need to make a profit to survive. Im all for bsing and having interaction with fellow hobbyists but when it comes down to the bottom line I have to look out for myself.

Well said. And besides if the shop owner thought about it. the $75 card they are selling is what $7 in ebay fees. Another couple $$ for shipping and paypal.
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#29

RE: Wish book price meant something
(12-28-2011, 02:02 AM)branesergen Wrote: Let us know if you get the case hit out of that case. Ever notice they sell singles too? How do you think they get those singles? By opening your case and boxing up the rest after they pulled the case hit. Packaging tape and combining 2 cases makes it a "sealed case"

Online shopping = You probably got case searched
LCS = Cant afford to case search when ordering only 1 or 2 cases
Actually I assume the opposite, and they aren't offering singles from that product. Maybe they are holding onto them until they sell all their cases?
- Collecting Navorro Bowman - http://tinyurl.com/bowmancollection
Total Cards = (236/349) 67%
Auto 59/83 Jersey 4/4
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#30

RE: Wish book price meant something
We are fortunate to have a great LCS within an hour of us, and they have extremely competitive pricing and don't give a hoot about following what other shops price their cards at. Matter of fact it's cheaper for us to shop there than "online" Smile

Problem ..... they sell boxes only but they do sponsor a once a month trade/sell night for all sports card collectors Smile

As for the bay, yes we do frequent there ..... why ??? because we can get singles of sets we just can't afford or are to scared to bust (the old high risk-high reward theory) Smile

Just last night we bought a Gold Standard 14K card and got it for a reasonable price. We just wanted one card from the series and we did it.

Other than that we go to our LCS ..... they are great folks to deal with, they take good care of myself and jr, and it's our "day out" so to speak Smile

As for Beckett pricing ..... please remember it's tagged as a "Price Guide" and without them we would really have nothing to gauge what our pulls are worth without spending a 1/2 hour on the bay searching for an average cost.

It's funny how we all beat up on Beckett when it tells us a card is worth $X and then we'll relish in the fact that we just sniped the same card for 1/3 of that and then brag about it on the boards Wink

Common sense comes to play, a $200 Chris Henry is not worth the same as a $200 Montana ..... it's how you use the system to broker your trades etc. that makes the difference here.

My only peeve is when folks preach SV to me (too many times this past two months)..... if you start a trade with me and tell me my cards are only worth $X don't get pissy with me when I do the same back Wink
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