[jacobystealshome]

it's a theory, not proof

you cant say that it isnt because one gets better cards to grade on the first place. or any other number of reasons there might be a differential

im a believer in numbers. but you are making a leap of logic here to say that this is some kind of proof of toughness in grading

[sonnyday]

(12-09-2011 07:53 AM)jacobystealshome Wrote:  it's a theory, not proof

you cant say that it isnt because one gets better cards to grade on the first place. or any other number of reasons there might be a differential

im a believer in numbers. but you are making a leap of logic here to say that this is some kind of proof of toughness in grading

The evidence is right there in plain sight. PSA 10 is a harder grade to get then a BGS 9.5. There is no arguing it, ITS A FACT. Every card that has a sampling of 1000 or more cards proves that there are more BGS 9.5 then PSA 10's.

There is no evidence to say that BGS gets better cards. In fact I could argue the other way around.

I mean this is Stats 101 guys.

[cylegreenwell]

I tell you what....

After looking at the numbers a bit more, I'd be more inclined to buy SGC cards for the quality of grade. If I'm going to grade a card for re-sale, I'm sending it to PSA for the re-sale value. If I'm going to do a cross-over or grade for my personal collection, I'm sending them to BGS because they have the best encapsulations.

That's my conclusion....until I'm swayed otherwise.

(12-09-2011 08:00 AM)sonnyday Wrote:  The evidence is right there in plain sight. PSA 10 is a harder grade to get then a BGS 9.5. There is no arguing it, ITS A FACT. Every card that has a sampling of 1000 or more cards proves that there are more BGS 9.5 then PSA 10's.

There is no evidence to say that BGS gets better cards. In fact I could argue the other way around.

I mean this is Stats 101 guys.

[jacobystealshome]

(12-09-2011 08:00 AM)sonnyday Wrote:  The evidence is right there in plain sight. PSA 10 is a harder grade to get then a BGS 9.5. There is no arguing it, ITS A FACT. Every card that has a sampling of 1000 or more cards proves that there are more BGS 9.5 then PSA 10's.

There is no evidence to say that BGS gets better cards. In fact I could argue the other way around.

I mean this is Stats 101 guys.

just because you say it is a fact doesnt make it so

go through this using simple scientific method, eh?

and not for nothing: i did statistical sampling for 5 years.

i dont argue your NUMBERS. i argue your conclusions.

[rusty222]

It's an interesting analysis and the results pretty much what I would have expected although I thought the number of BGS 9.5s would be even higher. The PSA 10s are more desired by collectors I am sure partly because there are less PSA 10s than the BGS 9.5s. Also I think there is something about getting a BGS 9.5 that puts off some collectors - like the 9.5 implies there is something wrong with the card whereas with a PSA 10 you cannot do any better.

As for the slabs PSA and BGS I dont consider one better than the other. I think BGS slabs are very brittle and can and do crack easy. I've had my problems with PSA slabs also. I had a few PSA 10 refractors where the refractor surface started peeling or humidity collected in the encapsulation during heat wave this past summer (I am not sure exactly what happened). Luckily the cards were not too valuable but I thought it was odd that occurred to just these two refractor cards and not any of my other cards. I thought the slab was protection against the outside elements like moisture but I guess not all the time.

[nolan5000]

(12-09-2011 03:37 PM)rusty222 Wrote:  It's an interesting analysis and the results pretty much what I would have expected although I thought the number of BGS 9.5s would be even higher. The PSA 10s are more desired by collectors I am sure partly because there are less PSA 10s than the BGS 9.5s. Also I think there is something about getting a BGS 9.5 that puts off some collectors - like the 9.5 implies there is something wrong with the card whereas with a PSA 10 you cannot do any better.

As for the slabs PSA and BGS I dont consider one better than the other. I think BGS slabs are very brittle and can and do crack easy. I've had my problems with PSA slabs also. I had a few PSA 10 refractors where the refractor surface started peeling or humidity collected in the encapsulation during heat wave this past summer (I am not sure exactly what happened). Luckily the cards were not too valuable but I thought it was odd that occurred to just these two refractor cards and not any of my other cards. I thought the slab was protection against the outside elements like moisture but I guess not all the time.

With regards to your 1st paragraph, I don't know what to say without violating the TOS.

If you wanted protection from the elements you should have gone with BGS. What exactly do you do with your BGS Graded cards? Do you drive over them with an 18 wheeler or use them as target practice with a shotgun?

[jeffv96masters]

The baseline stats shown prove nothing at all,,,, right now its more "conception" than it is a scientifically based statement of fact on which service is proving the tougher of the two to get gems out of on key cards being submitted,,,,,,,,

Did the statistician keep track of all the "minimum grade" submissions that were rejected as "not meeting minimum grade" in both companies ??? Many submitters sub with a minimum grade level,,,,, how do we take into account likely rejection percentages at companies? Did the statistician actually ask the grading companies for a ratio they could use as even a "guesstimate" for their analysis??

Did they know,,, or do research,,,, into how many of the submitters were dealers versus private people and factor that in ??? Did they once again ask the grading companies involved to give out a mean breakdown on how many percentage wise are dealers ,,,,,,,

Did they understand those dealers may just spend a lot of time looking for only the best, reviewing those items,,,, and subbing just those they thought would gem,,,,,, resulting in a higher percentage of gems on a key money making item ??? Which may prove why BGS seems to have more 'gems",,,,,

Did they do background research into rejected items not graded due to various factors such as minimum size not met and/or evidence of trimming?

I could go further into it,,,, but you get the picture,,,, pinpointing who is tougher is more than just viewing relevant data you can see,,, its about taken a generalized bunch of facts and deciphering what else needs to be included with them to come up with the statistical test that best proves or disproves the theory proposed,,,,,,

Too much thinking on a Friday,,, I'm done

I look forward to additional info if your able to get those grading companies to assist in what might be an interesting theorem for a statistics course final ,,,,,,

jeff

[rookies89]

There is a difference between correlation and causation. That is the first thing you learn in systems engineering statistics. If you really want to get to the bottom of a question with hazy data like this you would have to do a DOE analysis.

What is the real question though?
I think it is: Why should I get my cards graded and where is the best place to get my cards graded.
pt 1, $$$$$$ Cards are graded so that the condition is certified by an INDEPENDENT third party. THis leads cards to be more easily sold online and often at a higher value than the raw cards.
Therefore as I see it, to selecting a grader what is really most important is:(In Descending Order)
1. Cost to Added value (ie increased value - grading costs)
1a What sells for more at the same grade
2. How accurately can you predict the grade
3. Which case is most appealing to you?
This analysis is a much more direct and easier to perform.

---

Also, I learned the hard way through GAI, if the company goes out of business the grade no long has any legitimacy. PSA(CLCT) is publicly traded where Beckett and SGC are a private companies. This gives PSA an advantage(not saying that beckett is going out of business, they just don't have the transparency level PSA has).

[lane2800]

try the 1988 Donruss Roberto Alomar and tell me how your theory works out.
one guy has more than 10 PSA 10's available on eBay now. and there are not a total of BGS 9.5 total.

it's all about preference, i like the holders of BGS better, but if they don't get there act together with the site, it wont be enough to keep me as a customer.

plus if you are lucky enough to get the BGS 10 of a card, PSA has nothing that compare value wise to that.

[nolan5000]

(12-18-2011 03:44 AM)lane2800 Wrote:  it's all about preference

plus if you are lucky enough to get the BGS 10 of a card, PSA has nothing that compare value wise to that.

That's what I know and that's what he is not getting.