[will23c1982]

Ok, fair enough.

For me personally, sub-forums are a bad thing. At least we only have two of them, I suppose. I've seen some message boards with dozens of sub-forums. I think you need a lot of users/members for that to work. Currently, we only have a few members, so the less sub-forums the better. Just my opinion.

Like I said, I used to read the box breaks all the time but, now that they're in a separate sub-forum, I rarely check them out for whatever reason.

Changing the subject though, the main reason the basketball forums are dying is because of the pricing. Why would people trade here if they can do it for free elsewhere? Sure, the Organize is a nice feature, and some people are willing to pay to use it. But most people would rather put that $20 towards a nice autographed card, or maybe that's just me.

As a result, I think there's been an exodus of people to other message boards. Remember DrJ? Sportitupcards/Elgin Baylor? Tupark? All those guys (and myself) now post on another message board that gets hundreds more posts each day. There is a good feedback system that allows people to trade safely. The difference? It's free to use.

[greekgoony]

I know I have been on alot less and my interest is starting to wane. It is just no fun trading and seeing the same cards. I mean a trade thread will stay on the first page for days with a couple of hundred views and only 3 or 4 replies. There is much more activity on the Baseball and Hockey baords but even the volumes there are noticably down.

I think it all comes down to customer service. The way the new site was promised and delayed and the reward to the existing users for their patience kept people here, but the reward never came ( other than a temporary freeze of rates) and then the charge for the org etc. I think people are just fed up with the way Beckett treated them and they left.

I think they figured new people would come and the older users would return eventually, but the danger is, if they leave and are happy with other sites, why would they come back?

[xstreaminsanity]

I'm already concerned in the direction this thread is going. I understood the need to change the site, but was it done properly...no. I understood the freeze in rates, but is that enough for some people...no. I understand the increase in rates, but does it matter to some...no. However, trying to avoid a debate or the discussion of what other sites are out there and what they do or don't have, here's my opinion.

Organize is not even closely matched out there, and yes, I've tried a few other sites to compare them. The Trade feature on Beckett also is not closely matched out there, but that might be based on my collecting habits/preferences. I love what functionality Organize offers now, and even what it offered before, when it was free. I've had co-workers, who are software developers, look at the old site with me when they had it, when I was complaining about some of the functionality and here's what would be said:

"And they charge people for this?"
"No. They charge people for the prices of the cards, but anyone can Organize their cards and trade for free."
"They're crazy. I can't imagine the time and resources into developing the database let alone the front end."

And for quite a few years there, Organize and Trading was free while additions were being made to it, upgrades, fixes, etc. Now, as a mod, I don't know all of the workings of Beckett and honestly don't care to. But I know that for someone to put out a product like what Beckett had out with the old site, bugs and all, to not be charging a dime was very generous. If you ask me, it's years beyond the other options that are out there. And while there are still bugs/deficiencies in this current system, it has the potential to be even better than the old system, which still keeps it years ahead of the competition. Why does someone buy a box of Exquisite instead of Upper Deck MVP? Because it looks better, better quality (matter of opinion), better product and other factors, and the consumer is willing to pay that premium for it. The same goes here. Other collectors can choose whatever site they want and organize their cards and trade however they want. However, from the users I've talked to who use and have used Beckett's system, going back to the "old way" is very difficult because you're expecting some things to be as good as what Beckett has. I'd rather take two minutes to check someone's trade page in their Organize and see if they have cards I want, than read through a list and have to see if they are a card I need or not.

Again, I'm not trying to start a debate of who (site) has what, does what, etc. I'm simply stating that the discrepancy in people here will change in time. People will see how much better it is to use a system like this and I plan on showing people on other sites. I want them to see that, "Hey, after you Organize your cards, do a trade, you don't have to find your excel or notepad sheet and update it." lol. Also, while I agree that spending $20 on a nice auto would be nice, $20 on this system is well worth the sacrifice if you ask me. But again, that depends on your preferences of collecting. If someone is a collector who gets a few cards here and there, doesn't have an extensive collection, and rarely does anything with it, such as trading or selling, then $20 may not be worth it. But when you have thousands and thousands of cards, especially for trade, and you're looking for thousands and thousands of cards (I need 12,000+ more Pistons card for my Pistons PC) then this system can't be beat in my opinion.

[greekgoony]

Xstream, I agree with you that this site is the best by far. I hope you are right that people will come back, but I think the process has left a bad taste in few peoples mouths.

[pingbling23]

people just need to get the opg and do all there stuff on this site, its what, like 2 packs of cards a month? i do agree i dont like the way beckett went about doing this stuff, they and we knew we were going to lose people, but how do we convince these people and more, that this is the site to use? and will23, i thought there was somebody you could contact and they would let you change your org so you could have the right amount to do it free? xstream, help him out.

[will23c1982]

and will23, i thought there was somebody you could contact and they would let you change your org so you could have the right amount to do it free? xstream, help him out.

No, unfortunately it doesn't seem possible. I already spoke to xstream and floydtown about it. Here's what floydtown had to say:

"The try it out for free option is for 100 cards or less and once those cards are traded away or your organize exceeds 100 you get locked out. Every trade u make the organize will add that number to your organize so that also can take you over the 100 limit. Its designed for new guys to try out the organize and not a loop hole so you can get it for free."

The irony is, I'm unable to trade without paying for the service.

Sure, this makes me seem like a free loader, but I refuse to pay for something that I can get for free elsewhere. I'm sure this is why so many people have left the boards.

[xstreaminsanity]

people just need to get the opg and do all there stuff on this site, its what, like 2 packs of cards a month? i do agree i dont like the way beckett went about doing this stuff, they and we knew we were going to lose people, but how do we convince these people and more, that this is the site to use? and will23, i thought there was somebody you could contact and they would let you change your org so you could have the right amount to do it free? xstream, help him out.

They did that when they first started charging, but they won't keep doing it for everyone because then that is essentially going around the system. Whoops, it happened again. Whoops, it happened again. Not saying that's Will's case, but he can contact wtsjr and see if they'll do it for him. That is the biggest concern with using the 100 cards for free though. We ALWAYS tell people to put their cards in Org before trading, but when they do that, if they make a good sized trade, they run the risk of going over. And if the trade is in the other person's hands, and they haven't had time to clear it out to make room, then that means the other person might accidentally push them over. It's something us mods have had many conversations with Beckett about, to try and find the best possible solution for everyone.

[pingbling23]

oh, i thought the whole point was for anyone to be able to trade and organize if they have 100 or less cards, not just for new users, i think that would be fine for people to keep using the trade and org with 100 or less cards for free, and if you want to go further with it, you have to pay. and having to keep track of your collection, not doing a trade to put you over the limit is one of the things you would have to deal with since its free. but i understand people would accidentally go over the limit and it would be a pain for mods to fix this all the time, but with the free for 100 and less should be for everyone, and maybe it would add to some extra traffic on the site, i thought in the help forum they were opening peoples accounts and getting the org within the limit, thats why i thought will23 could get some help.

[xstreaminsanity]

oh, i thought the whole point was for anyone to be able to trade and organize if they have 100 or less cards, not just for new users, i think that would be fine for people to keep using the trade and org with 100 or less cards for free, and if you want to go further with it, you have to pay. and having to keep track of your collection, not doing a trade to put you over the limit is one of the things you would have to deal with since its free. but i understand people would accidentally go over the limit and it would be a pain for mods to fix this all the time, but with the free for 100 and less should be for everyone, and maybe it would add to some extra traffic on the site, i thought in the help forum they were opening peoples accounts and getting the org within the limit, thats why i thought will23 could get some help.

It is for everyone, I'm simply saying that they only fixed it in the beginning for people who accidentally went over 100, like people who had pending trades and whoops, they went over. Anyone, even if they've been here for 8 years, can use Organize and Trade for free if they have 100 cards or less. It's the managing your cards and trades to make sure no trades send you over 100. Once you go over 100 (now), you have to pay for the OPG or Organize to get it back below 100. Does that make sense?

[TheEvilEmpire]

Now back on topic, lol.

I believe there isn't as much traffic because it seems like basketball releases the least amount of product compared to baseball and football..

Also, I wish their would be more retired/legends/greats products like their is for football and baseball..Products such as SP Legendary Cuts for baseball, etc help fuel collecting and discussion as well..