RE: HOF debate: wanna hear opinions....contest as well
(10-05-2012 12:43 AM)ajcdj1012 Wrote: Okay. Here we go. Hopefully I don't hurt any feelings.
1. Biggio. A shoe in, I think. I would personally consider him a first ballot nominee, but I don't see that happening. His .281 average is modest, but maintained over 18 years, still respectable. 3060 his basically seals the deal, although, with "only" 291 homers, not a power hitter per say. Moving from catcher to second base its rather remarkable, and 7 all star appearances and 4 gold gloves are nothing to scoff at. He IS also the only player with 3000 hits, 600 doubles, 400 stolen bases and 250 hone runs. Interesting side note, he hit his 3000th hit the same day The Big Hurt hit his 500th hone run.
2. Bagwell. Here's where it gets ugly. No. Not before many, many other players. His career average of .297 is astounding, but his other numbers barely stand out at all. 1529 hits? Maybe if 500 of them were out of the park. I know, 449 is pretty darn close, but it'll also only get you CLOSE, to the Hall of Fame.
3. Palmeiro. Won't go in immediately because of the juice, but deserves it. 3020 hits, 569 home runs, 1835 RBI. If that was it, he'd be in. 4 time all star, 3 time gold glove. Sold. Also, most games played EVER with no visit to the World Series (2831). That just takes dedication and love of the game.
4. Blyleven. More hurt feelings. Just not good enough. Too late for this discussion now, but I'll still say it. Yes, 3701 strike outs, but over the course of 22 seasons! His record of 287-250? Just not good enough. 3.31 ERA, decent, respectable, but not enough to make it all worthwhile. What I consider his stand out achievement was in 1985, when he pitched damn close to 300 innings with 24 (that's not a typo, it's really 24) complete games. And now we look at Verlander like he's a marathon runner. That's intense, but it doesn't make him worthy of a Hall mod.
5. Thomas. No hurt feelings, here, just The Big Hurt. I think you only added this question to hear all the great things people had to say about your boy, because I don't think anyone would argue with him being a first ballot entry. So, instead of trying to persuade a group that is surely on my side here, I'll just spout some stats so we can all drool. Career batting average of .301, 2468 hits, 1704 RBI, 521 HE.
ONLY player with SEVEN consecutive seasons with .300 BA, 100 BB, 100 Runs, 100 RBI, and 20 HR. Sound impressive? Yes. Then remember that one of those consecutive years was 1994, when Thomas played only 113 games due to the strike. That's almost one hit, one run, one RBI, AND one walk PER GAME. Oh, and pitchers feared him. So much so that he walked 1667 times. All this with no steroid stain. He better be in.
Hope I didn't make anyone cry, thanks.
Well first let me say I think you have the Bagwell numbers wrong. His hit count is 2314 not 1529. I just thought the extra 500 were worth noting.
I didn't post to hear the comments about my boy. I posted to see the different points of view for him to be in or out. Your points on Thomas though are amazing. I always look for something that sets a player apart and makes him stand out. The comments on Blyleven in his 24 CG season changes my perspective some on him. So well done! The points on Thomas make him unarguable in my eyes. I had no doubt but I seriously questioned first ballot. I no longer have doubt. Its not that I didn't know the numbers but to hear it put the way you did makes it seem amazing.
Kila Ka'aihue 133/138 Non 1/1s (96% complete) 13/64 1/1s (19% complete)
Auto Needs: http://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-1529244.html