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Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - Printable Version

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RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - xstreaminsanity - 07-26-2011 09:13 AM

Ok, how to put this? If the pack is opened and then resealed, which at times cannot be proven without chemical testing, that is illegal. However, if no cards are damaged in the process, the pack was never opened, and the person paid for the pack from the institution that was selling them, then there was no illegal act taken. Morally wrong, I believe so. But, not illegal. If it is your own scale and own equipment that you take into the store, the store does not care. If the people seeing you have no care of sports card collecting or are employees that do not care who collects cards, they aren't going to stop you. Employees and stores want you to buy the product whether you get a decoy or you get a patch /10. Upper Deck wouldn't even care if you went to the LCS and started weighing boxes of cards looking for hot boxes, just so long as they get their money. The only people that care about pack searchers (I am not fond of pack searchers) are collectors who see the moral injustice in it. They put the cards next to the pokemon, Justin Beiber, Toy Story, Cars and other cards for a reason, it's aimed at kids. You don't see them in the hobby section (well I haven't) of Wal-Mart because you won't see most kids in the hobby section of wal-mart. At my closest Wal-Mart, the cards have gone from in the front right next to the kids books, to the Toys section right next to the Spiderman toys, to the Sports Goods area right in front of the Sports Goods desk, to the Toys section on the end cap. Three out of four of those places are kids areas. BUT, if Wal-Mart (or any other retail store selling cards) sees you weighing the packs or feeling them up, they're just going to have security watch you and make sure you pay for them. Otherwise, they don't care.

Congratulations to the OP on the pull!!!


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - lobos1974 - 07-26-2011 09:17 AM

Searched packs may not all be damaged(many are), but if they are searched, then the true odds on the packs have been eliminated dishonestly and the ramaining packs would be sold without the true odds listed on them. This affects the entire hobby. It affects any of us who buy cards at retail outlets. It affects the potential future of the hobby as many collectors, young and old, may lose interest after buying pack after pack at Walmart and never getting much to be happy about. It affects the Hobby shops because people can jump on Ebay and grab 10 "hot packs" for the price of one box at the shop. Anyone can argue whether it is legal, illegal, right, wrong or whatever, but anytime you are dishonestly cheating others, it is wrong. Also keep in mind that this does happen at some hobby shops as well. If you frequent a hobby shop and found out the owner was searching all opened boxes, how would you feel about the money you have spent on packs over the years? If any pack searching situations were brought into moral court, I think we all know how it would come out.


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - xstreaminsanity - 07-26-2011 09:25 AM

(07-26-2011 09:17 AM)lobos1974 Wrote:  Searched packs may not all be damaged(many are), but if they are searched, then the true odds on the packs have been eliminated dishonestly and the ramaining packs would be sold without the true odds listed on them. This affects the entire hobby. It affects any of us who buy cards at retail outlets. It affects the potential future of the hobby as many collectors, young and old, may lose interest after buying pack after pack at Walmart and never getting much to be happy about. It affects the Hobby shops because people can jump on Ebay and grab 10 "hot packs" for the price of one box at the shop. Anyone can argue whether it is legal, illegal, right, wrong or whatever, but anytime you are dishonestly cheating others, it is wrong. Also keep in mind that this does happen at some hobby shops as well. If you frequent a hobby shop and found out the owner was searching all opened boxes, how would you feel about the money you have spent on packs over the years? If any pack searching situations were brought into moral court, I think we all know how it would come out.

I completely agree. Smile


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - swindlehurst - 07-26-2011 09:34 AM

The guy bought the pack from one of the card stores here in MN, not from retail. What's the point of jumping on someone for selling hotpacks? Are you really above someone like then when you bring yourself down by name calling and hate spewing? There are far more things to trouble yourself with than hate mongering.


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - _ZENAS_ - 07-26-2011 09:35 AM

There are several ways to pack search, and almost all of them involve some illegal activity. Sure you might be able to come up with a legal way (some high tech xray machine or something), but in general the methods employed by pack searchers selling hot pack are illegal. If you want to argue that, bring it on as I prosecute these types of crimes every day. And even if you can find a method that isn't illegal, it is still morally reprehensible and damaging to the hobby. And if you argue it doesn't damage the hobby you are insane.

So defend it all you want, but 90% of all pack searching IS illegal and the other 10% is just as bad. So I am not making a single assumption about anyone engaged in the dealing of hot packs. They are scum.


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - jacobystealshome - 07-26-2011 09:39 AM

my final word is this:

everyone acknowledges that some forms of pack searching IS illegal. if you dont know which hot packs are gained by illegal or legal methods, than any hot packs purchased or sold support the business of ILLEGAL pack searching

period


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - crazyforkinsler5 - 07-26-2011 09:45 AM

Sorry, but I ain't spending that kind of money for a strand of hair. That just ain't happening.

It's a cool collectible because of what all happened and how JFK died so suddenly, but not for me.

Also, it pisses me off that this guy is the one selling it. I hate hot packs. I have bought 1 ever. It was at a show in Dallas last year. I just wanted to see what all the fuss and commotion was about because the sellers behind the booth were opening them and hitting autos, multi-color swatches, etc. So, I left their table and went and opened my pack and got a common 1 color JSY. Paid $5 for that POS and it pissed me the hell off.

I ain't doing no more hot packs. They suck and it should be criminal!


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - xstreaminsanity - 07-26-2011 09:50 AM

(07-26-2011 09:35 AM)_ZENAS_ Wrote:  There are several ways to pack search, and almost all of them involve some illegal activity. Sure you might be able to come up with a legal way (some high tech xray machine or something), but in general the methods employed by pack searchers selling hot pack are illegal. If you want to argue that, bring it on as I prosecute these types of crimes every day. And even if you can find a method that isn't illegal, it is still morally reprehensible and damaging to the hobby. And if you argue it doesn't damage the hobby you are insane.

So defend it all you want, but 90% of all pack searching IS illegal and the other 10% is just as bad. So I am not making a single assumption about anyone engaged in the dealing of hot packs. They are scum.

Believe me, I agree wholeheartedly, I was just simply saying that some ways are and some ways aren't illegal. I believe people who pack search should be banned from the hobby (if only it were possible). Smile
(07-26-2011 09:39 AM)jacobystealshome Wrote:  my final word is this:

everyone acknowledges that some forms of pack searching IS illegal. if you dont know which hot packs are gained by illegal or legal methods, than any hot packs purchased or sold support the business of ILLEGAL pack searching

period

Agreed.
(07-26-2011 09:45 AM)crazyforkinsler5 Wrote:  Sorry, but I ain't spending that kind of money for a strand of hair. That just ain't happening.

It's a cool collectible because of what all happened and how JFK died so suddenly, but not for me.

Also, it pisses me off that this guy is the one selling it. I hate hot packs. I have bought 1 ever. It was at a show in Dallas last year. I just wanted to see what all the fuss and commotion was about because the sellers behind the booth were opening them and hitting autos, multi-color swatches, etc. So, I left their table and went and opened my pack and got a common 1 color JSY. Paid $5 for that POS and it pissed me the hell off.

I ain't doing no more hot packs. They suck and it should be criminal!

Agreed. And sorry for your experience.
I'd like to ask your guys' opinions, just to see them, on this scenario. I know some of you also collect basketball and this is the only example I can come up with so I apologize if you've never seen it or experienced it. On rack packs of 2008-09 Upper Deck, the back of the rack pack was designed to specifically show what two Wal-Mart exclusive inserts were in there (2008-09 Upper Deck Team MVPs). Do you find it wrong or reprehensible if someone were to chose the 7th pack in the row because they saw that it had a LeBron James card rather than the others that had second rate players?


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - ricelynnevans75 - 07-26-2011 09:58 AM

You prosecute pack searchers? Since you're up on this, then surely you can point us in the direction of the law that states pack searching is illegal.

(07-26-2011 09:35 AM)_ZENAS_ Wrote:  There are several ways to pack search, and almost all of them involve some illegal activity. Sure you might be able to come up with a legal way (some high tech xray machine or something), but in general the methods employed by pack searchers selling hot pack are illegal. If you want to argue that, bring it on as I prosecute these types of crimes every day. And even if you can find a method that isn't illegal, it is still morally reprehensible and damaging to the hobby. And if you argue it doesn't damage the hobby you are insane.

So defend it all you want, but 90% of all pack searching IS illegal and the other 10% is just as bad. So I am not making a single assumption about anyone engaged in the dealing of hot packs. They are scum.


(07-26-2011 09:39 AM)jacobystealshome Wrote:  my final word is this:

everyone acknowledges that some forms of pack searching IS illegal. if you dont know which hot packs are gained by illegal or legal methods, than any hot packs purchased or sold support the business of ILLEGAL pack searching

period

I acknowledge that pack searching is morally wrong. Knowingly damaging the product itself and not paying for it is likely illegal though.


RE: Allen Ginter JFK 1/1 Relic hits E-bay.... Sold by none other than... - TheEvilEmpire - 07-26-2011 10:13 AM

(07-26-2011 09:50 AM)xstreaminsanity Wrote:  .

Agreed. And sorry for your experience.
I'd like to ask your guys' opinions, just to see them, on this scenario. I know some of you also collect basketball and this is the only example I can come up with so I apologize if you've never seen it or experienced it. On rack packs of 2008-09 Upper Deck, the back of the rack pack was designed to specifically show what two Wal-Mart exclusive inserts were in there (2008-09 Upper Deck Team MVPs). Do you find it wrong or reprehensible if someone were to chose the 7th pack in the row because they saw that it had a LeBron James card rather than the others that had second rate players?

I don't see a problem in that...I'm sure every other person that goes there to look at the racks tries to see through them and see what players they can see...It's not like you are ripping it open or tearing it slightly to see who is inside or anything like that..