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Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
01-01-2012, 05:22 PM
Post: #21
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
A man's arms are not supposed to look like that. His arm was growing its own galaxies.
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01-01-2012, 05:40 PM
Post: #22
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
(01-01-2012 05:22 PM)natejeffries Wrote:  A man's arms are not supposed to look like that. His arm was growing its own galaxies.

So are you going to actually address what I said about the differences in appearance from when a muscle is actually being used in comparison to when it is at rest?
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01-01-2012, 06:09 PM
Post: #23
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
I never said there wasn't a difference. I haven't seen anybody pre 70's, swinging a bat or throwing a ball who seemingly had multiple forearms on the same arm, with biceps exploding and veins ripping apart.

Ted and Foxx were both huge guys but they look natural to me. They didn't have the steroid defined multiple muscle exploding look that Bench had.
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01-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Post: #24
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
(01-01-2012 06:09 PM)natejeffries Wrote:  I never said there wasn't a difference. I haven't seen anybody pre 70's, swinging a bat or throwing a ball who seemingly had multiple forearms on the same arm, with biceps exploding and veins ripping apart.

They didn't have the steroid defined multiple muscle exploding look that Bench had.

show me any other photo where his arm isnt in motion where it looks like he has "two arms in one"

though, i dont know why im feeding this thread

well, screw it:





i think youre full of it

(08-06-2014 11:33 AM)jaykayzee Wrote:  Don't confuse "not valuable" with "not collectible".
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01-01-2012, 06:30 PM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2012 06:31 PM by x yankeemike x.)
Post: #25
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
Those look like my arms. And you can check my urine,it'll be clean. hahahaha. Bench didn't use IMO,and this is coming from an ARod SuperFan Wink

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01-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Post: #26
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
(01-01-2012 06:17 PM)jacobystealshome Wrote:  i think youre full of it

I think he's just jealous that they have muscles.
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01-01-2012, 07:17 PM
Post: #27
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
(01-01-2012 11:22 AM)dbauer2 Wrote:  Red flags for steroids should be huge anomalies like the recent power trend in 35+ year old ball players, when 75+ years of data says that most players are done playing at an elite level by their early 30s.

Warren Spahn recorded 187 of his 363 wins after he was 35, including six straight seasons of 20 or more wins after he turned 35... red flag.

Jamie Moyer... red flag.

Phil Niekro... red flag

Tommy John... red flag

No one has ever accused anyone above from being on steroids and/or HGH, etc... They were all better AFTER turning 35... an anomaly.
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01-01-2012, 07:54 PM
Post: #28
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
An easy explanation for the difference in Morgan's numbers from the Astros to the Reds. Just look at the lineup that he was in with the Reds and compare to the lineup that he was with the Astros. That helps raise your numbers. I don't have a picture to show, but I recalled a photo of Lou Gehrig without a shirt after he weightlifted and he had big arms and chest. Maybe they did use some. Remember a lineup with Rose, Concepcion, Driessen, Bench, Foster, Perez, Griffey, etc. As a hitter, you will benefit from being in that lineup.
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01-01-2012, 08:04 PM
Post: #29
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
(01-01-2012 02:33 PM)john1580 Wrote:  This is the runaway winner for stupidist thread of the year, and im pretty sure it will hold the title for the next 12 months

+1

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01-01-2012, 08:18 PM
Post: #30
RE: Did steroids in baseball start with the Big Red Machine?
What's your point? Some pitchers age well?

Pitching has always aged better than hitting.

I'm getting at the overall point that power in general diminishes after players hit their early 30s. Sure some guys can have a bounce back year later in their career, but not sustained like they did earlier in their careers.

Great Examples:
E.Mathews- 9 30+ HR seasons before the age of 30, after 1 season
M.Mantle- 7 30+ HR seasons before 30, 2 30+ after (age 30, 32)
Mel Ott - 7 30+ HR seasons before 30, 1 after (age 33)
Jimmy Foxx 9 30+ HR seasons before 30, 3 after
Ted Williams 5 30+ HR seasons before 30 (lost 3 of those years to the war), 3 30+ HR seasons after

The exceptions to the trends are the guys you would expect. Ruth, Aaron, Mays all had at least 5 30+ HR seasons after 30. ie they sustained their power longer to become the best 3 HR hitters ever. They break all the rules, because they are the 3 best of all time.

What about todays power hitters?
Sheffield 2 30+ HR season before 30, 6 after 30
Bonds 4 30+ HR seasons before 30, 10 after 30
Mcgwire 5 before 30, 7 after 30
Sosa 5 before 30, 6 after 30.
Palmeiro 5 before 30, 6 after 30.

The exceptions to the steroid era trend are:
Griffey 6 before 30, 3 after
Thomas 6 before 30, 3 after

Thome is a guy that hit has sustained power, but it's hard to get a trend due to all of his injuries.

Arod's already got 5+ 30+ seasons from the time he was 30 on. We all know his story.

This isn't to say that hitters over 30 that hit more than 30 HR in a season use steroids. It's more saying when a players sustains it and hits more HR year after year after 30 than before, the only examples are in the "steroid era."







(01-01-2012 07:17 PM)wmrklemm78 Wrote:  Warren Spahn recorded 187 of his 363 wins after he was 35, including six straight seasons of 20 or more wins after he turned 35... red flag.

Jamie Moyer... red flag.

Phil Niekro... red flag

Tommy John... red flag

No one has ever accused anyone above from being on steroids and/or HGH, etc... They were all better AFTER turning 35... an anomaly.
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