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SGC Grading
12-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Post: #11
RE: SGC Grading
I agree about pricing but if you like Beckett, you can always ask for a price match, which has helped me in the past. I have several hundred SGC graded cards, mostly 1972 O Pee Chees and I really like the way they display. My concern with SGC though is the card holder. I purchased and still have a 1967 Topps Clemente Checklist card graded a 92 (8.5). A couple of years later when I inspected under a loupe, I discovered that the holder was too small and the card had essentially been jammed into place and had been damaged at the bottom. The top edge also looked like it may have been trimmed on one side. Beckett is the best at detecting altered cards and the plastic sleeve further protects the card unlike what I encountered with the Clemente. Despite my massive frustrations with the Beckett registry I still prefer Beckett grading to SGC for the bulk of my grading.

Twitter: @Coimbre21 - Collecting Carl Yastrzemski Topps, Jimmie Foxx, 1966 Topps Venezuelan, 2010 Topps Tribute HOF Relics & Autos, L.A. Rams Autos
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12-20-2011, 08:29 PM
Post: #12
RE: SGC Grading
(12-20-2011 08:21 PM)coimbre 21 Wrote:  Beckett is the best at detecting altered cards

Based on?
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12-20-2011, 09:10 PM (This post was last modified: 12-20-2011 10:41 PM by coimbre 21.)
Post: #13
RE: SGC Grading
[quote='ricelynnevans75' pid='1814861' dateline='1324434568']

Based on?

Beckett brought a large problem to my attention which was that a single vendor, TriplePlayVintage in OH, had sold me about $3k in altered cards, about 15% of the cards the dealer sold me over several years. When confronted, TPV's reply was to "try PSA" which coincided with a large number of PSA 9's TPV was suddenly posting on their eBay store. Fortunately I got most of my money back from TPV. With that experience I decided to understand more about altered cards and some of the graders at Beckett helped to educate me personally on how to detect doctored cards. I wound up inspecting my entire vintage collection including all my PSA and SGC cards. The Clemente I referred to is my only tangible example of a likely trimmed and graded SGC card but I have several examples of trimmed PSA cards, including 1971, 1973, and 1975 Topps. I've had similar discussions among several dealers in TX, OR, and CA and with other collectors that shared similar experiences about PSA. I will never use PSA but I will still continue to use SGC for my Latin issues and probably some pre-WWll cards, understanding that I'm detecting any doctored cards before I purchase much less submit for grading.

By the way, I am a Yaz fanatic.

Twitter: @Coimbre21 - Collecting Carl Yastrzemski Topps, Jimmie Foxx, 1966 Topps Venezuelan, 2010 Topps Tribute HOF Relics & Autos, L.A. Rams Autos
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12-21-2011, 04:55 PM
Post: #14
RE: SGC Grading
(12-20-2011 09:10 PM)coimbre 21 Wrote:  [quote='ricelynnevans75' pid='1814861' dateline='1324434568']

Based on?

Beckett brought a large problem to my attention which was that a single vendor, TriplePlayVintage in OH, had sold me about $3k in altered cards, about 15% of the cards the dealer sold me over several years. When confronted, TPV's reply was to "try PSA" which coincided with a large number of PSA 9's TPV was suddenly posting on their eBay store. Fortunately I got most of my money back from TPV. With that experience I decided to understand more about altered cards and some of the graders at Beckett helped to educate me personally on how to detect doctored cards. I wound up inspecting my entire vintage collection including all my PSA and SGC cards. The Clemente I referred to is my only tangible example of a likely trimmed and graded SGC card but I have several examples of trimmed PSA cards, including 1971, 1973, and 1975 Topps. I've had similar discussions among several dealers in TX, OR, and CA and with other collectors that shared similar experiences about PSA. I will never use PSA but I will still continue to use SGC for my Latin issues and probably some pre-WWll cards, understanding that I'm detecting any doctored cards before I purchase much less submit for grading.

By the way, I am a Yaz fanatic.

Sounds familiar. Did you post that by chance in the past?

I'm always skeptical of grading companies grading cards in another companies holders. I don't know if that's what you did or not. I'm a pretty cynical person and don't have a whole lot of faith in people so I'd be weary of sending in cards to one company in another companies holders. I'm not being specific about either company, just overall. My belief is that one company would want to look "harder" or "better" than the other company. Not all the time obviously, but enough of the time. Better for business I guess. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if altered cards get by graders, in every company, at times. It's impossible to be 100% correct 100% of the time.

On a somewhat related note, I have seen posted on various boards at times where someone will send in a modern card to be graded that they pulled out of the pack/box/whatever and have it come back as altered/trimmed. Reason being is that the card was cut short at the factory. I know that happened a lot back in the good old days of cards so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case sometimes.
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12-22-2011, 03:16 PM
Post: #15
RE: SGC Grading
(12-21-2011 04:55 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote:  Sounds familiar. Did you post that by chance in the past?

I'm always skeptical of grading companies grading cards in another companies holders. I don't know if that's what you did or not. I'm a pretty cynical person and don't have a whole lot of faith in people so I'd be weary of sending in cards to one company in another companies holders. I'm not being specific about either company, just overall. My belief is that one company would want to look "harder" or "better" than the other company. Not all the time obviously, but enough of the time. Better for business I guess. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if altered cards get by graders, in every company, at times. It's impossible to be 100% correct 100% of the time.

On a somewhat related note, I have seen posted on various boards at times where someone will send in a modern card to be graded that they pulled out of the pack/box/whatever and have it come back as altered/trimmed. Reason being is that the card was cut short at the factory. I know that happened a lot back in the good old days of cards so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case sometimes.

I could not agree more. If I am cross grading I would want the card removed from the slab and sent to the second grading company in raw form. Otherwise, intentional or not, I could not see how the second company doing the regrade would not be biased or influenced by the other company's grade.
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01-18-2012, 07:22 PM
Post: #16
RE: SGC Grading
(12-21-2011 04:55 PM)ricelynnevans75 Wrote:  Sounds familiar. Did you post that by chance in the past?

I'm always skeptical of grading companies grading cards in another companies holders. I don't know if that's what you did or not. I'm a pretty cynical person and don't have a whole lot of faith in people so I'd be weary of sending in cards to one company in another companies holders. I'm not being specific about either company, just overall. My belief is that one company would want to look "harder" or "better" than the other company. Not all the time obviously, but enough of the time. Better for business I guess. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if altered cards get by graders, in every company, at times. It's impossible to be 100% correct 100% of the time.

On a somewhat related note, I have seen posted on various boards at times where someone will send in a modern card to be graded that they pulled out of the pack/box/whatever and have it come back as altered/trimmed. Reason being is that the card was cut short at the factory. I know that happened a lot back in the good old days of cards so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case sometimes.

Apologies for the late reply here. I agree with all your points and fortunately the few crossovers I've submitted to Beckett came back with the same grade or higher (1971 Topps Greatest Moments Yaz & 1966 Topps Venezuelan Koufax Leaders). The detections I referred to that Beckett made were all raw cards. The SGC Clemente I referred to is still in an SGC holder, but when I inspected it under a 10X loupe, the top edge is way too smooth, without the porousness that is characteristic of a factory cut. You're right though, I don't think any company catches them all. As big of a proponent of Beckett as I've been, they have completely disregarded the Registry users over the last few months and now I'm grading more cards with SGC that otherwise would have gone to BVG.

Twitter: @Coimbre21 - Collecting Carl Yastrzemski Topps, Jimmie Foxx, 1966 Topps Venezuelan, 2010 Topps Tribute HOF Relics & Autos, L.A. Rams Autos
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01-18-2012, 08:55 PM
Post: #17
RE: SGC Grading
Which Venezuelan Koufax leader do you have, I love sgc, but a good psa graded Koufax Venezuelan card will bring some good $$$.

Collecting Bob Feller, 1951 Bowman, anything Cleveland.

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01-18-2012, 09:20 PM
Post: #18
RE: SGC Grading
(01-18-2012 08:55 PM)sonnyday Wrote:  Which Venezuelan Koufax leader do you have, I love sgc, but a good psa graded Koufax Venezuelan card will bring some good $$$.

I have #221 ERA Leaders, which was a PSA 3.5 but crossed it over to Beckett and now grades BVG 4. I don't like cross overs unless I absolutely have to, which in this case I did because I'm trying to complete my 1966 Topps Venezuelan BVG Registry, which is now 60% complete.

I also have #100 Koufax which is a BVG 3 and #223 Pitching leaders which is a BVG 1.5. Tough cards to find in general, much less in great shape.

Twitter: @Coimbre21 - Collecting Carl Yastrzemski Topps, Jimmie Foxx, 1966 Topps Venezuelan, 2010 Topps Tribute HOF Relics & Autos, L.A. Rams Autos
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01-19-2012, 01:03 PM (This post was last modified: 01-19-2012 01:11 PM by dahouse123.)
Post: #19
RE: SGC Grading
Don't mean to jump to the party late! In my opinion SGC on newer cards makes them look cheap. Prices on eBay and other sites of completed transactions do seem to bear that out as well (There isn't a ton of data but on some 2011 football rookies you can see some of the contrasting values.)

And then on the flip if you have SGC on super old vintage you seem to get more bang for your buck. So the moral of the story appears to be that you have to use all of the "Big 3" if you want to get the most value for your cards.

*I also wanted to add that Non-sports cards each seem to have their own favored grader.
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