Best of the modern era? No.
That being said, if I was building a team of players from the last 20 years, he would be my shortstop. He's a team player and gives it his all when he plays. Those are the type of players I like, the guys that go out on the field, perform, and then keep their mouths shut about it. When he became the Yankee all time hits leader, I think I remember hearing that he was uncomfortable with the applause and everything he got.
Individual awards are nice for the player but they don't mean anything in the grand scheme of the game. How many of said award doesn't mean a player is better than another player either. In my opinion, when a player wins something like an MVP, they should give great credit to their teammates as it's the rest of the team that helped put that player in the position to win. And to hit on the gold glove, that has to be one of the most messed up award systems in place. Somebody, I forget who, won a GG for first base when they played more games at DH than they did in the field. How does that happen? (Palmeiro sticks out in my mind but it might not be him, I'll check later.)
The only award that matter is the World Series. It's the ultimate team award.
EDITED TO ADD: Yes, Palmeiro won the GG at first base in 1999 while only playing 28 games in the field the whole year AND being named the leagues outstanding DH. I think they actually take offense into consideration when choosing the gold glove winner, at least partially, which is just wrong.
The Cardboard Fan Wrote:docisin Wrote:[quote="Beatles Guy"][quote="docisin"]
Um hello Chipper Jones... Who knows but I don't think he was/is a user
Good Point on Chipper. But i'm not 100% sure on him as I am with Jeter and Griffey.
RiceLynnEvans75 Wrote:Best of the modern era? No.
That being said, if I was building a team of players from the last 20 years, he would be my shortstop. He's a team player and gives it his all when he plays. Those are the type of players I like, the guys that go out on the field, perform, and then keep their mouths shut about it. When he became the Yankee all time hits leader, I think I remember hearing that he was uncomfortable with the applause and everything he got.
Individual awards are nice for the player but they don't mean anything in the grand scheme of the game. How many of said award doesn't mean a player is better than another player either. In my opinion, when a player wins something like an MVP, they should give great credit to their teammates as it's the rest of the team that helped put that player in the position to win.
I have to agree. He's an incredible team player, and that's the #1 most important qualification for a great player.
I've always really liked him, but reading Joe Torre's book, The Yankee Years, made me a much bigger fan, knowing how much he puts what's good for the team ahead of his own stats (unlike a certain Yankee third baseman that I'm just barely starting to not hate).
Another thing people need to take into consideration is this.....the media scrutiny for players in NY compared to other cities and teams. Would there be more pressure on Pujols to win everything every year in St Louis than Jeter in New York? That adds to everything, and I'm not talking about simply in the stats department. Give Pujols enough time and will he replicate the same consistency as Jeter? Maybe. Only time will tell but to do that then St Louis will need to put together a lot of good teams, which I don't think they'll do. I don't think they'll have the resources.
One thing I notice is he's always first at the steps in the dugout to congratulate his teammates, that says a lot about character, which to be honest this game needs now more than ever.
The difference in which I see that Jeter is miles ahead of Pujols, it's the difference to being a big fish in a big pond compared to a big fish in a little pond.
OzLuke Wrote:Another thing people need to take into consideration is this.....the media scrutiny for players in NY compared to other cities and teams. Would there be more pressure on Pujols to win everything every year in St Louis than Jeter in New York? That adds to everything, and I'm not talking about simply in the stats department. Give Pujols enough time and will he replicate the same consistency as Jeter? Maybe. Only time will tell but to do that then St Louis will need to put together a lot of good teams, which I don't think they'll do. I don't think they'll have the resources.
One thing I notice is he's always first at the steps in the dugout to congratulate his teammates, that says a lot about character, which to be honest this game needs now more than ever.
The difference in which I see that Jeter is miles ahead of Pujols, it's the difference to being a big fish in a big pond compared to a big fish in a little pond.
This argument is weak. For one, you're automatically putting Pujols in a lesser position because of where he plays. So should we then take any good player over Pujols because they play in NY? I don't think playing in NY gets to as many players as the fans like to think. It's just another thing to pump themselves up and thump their chests.
On the flipside of your argument, if Jeter was anywhere else but NY, this thread would not exist.
OzLuke Wrote:Another thing people need to take into consideration is this.....the media scrutiny for players in NY compared to other cities and teams. Would there be more pressure on Pujols to win everything every year in St Louis than Jeter in New York?
Sure, the Yankees and Red Sox get tons more publicity than any other teams, but from every time I've been to St. Louis and every encounter I have with someone from there, I've concluded that the Cardinals are HUGE there. There's a lot of pressure for that team to succeed, and they don't get the benefit of Steinbrenner's wallet to do so.
OzLuke Wrote:Give Pujols enough time and will he replicate the same consistency as Jeter? Maybe.
How long do you define "consistency" being? 9 years is a lot of years for a player to be putting up stats like Pujols. He's been consistently in the MVP talks every year of his career. Over .300 BA, 30 HRs and 100 RBIs all 9 years, including his
rookie year.
OzLuke Wrote:Only time will tell but to do that then St Louis will need to put together a lot of good teams, which I don't think they'll do. I don't think they'll have the resources.
There's more proof that Pujols is the better player. St. Louis isn't spending as much to field a better team, but they've been making the playoffs just as much as the Yankees.
Jeter has been an amazing player for many years. Calling him a "winner" while playing on the Yankees is like calling Griffey a "loser" for never playing in a World Series.
I can undoubtedly say that Pujols is the greatest player I've seen play since he came into the league 9 years ago and quite possibly the best I've ever seen period.
karl von Wrote:[quote="OzLuke"]
I can undoubtedly say that Pujols is the greatest player I've seen play since he came into the league 9 years ago and quite possibly the best I've ever seen period.
I wouldn't call Pujols the best player i've ever seen. Maybe in the last ten years. He is definitely the best hitter in the last ten years as far as hitting for power and average. But once the bat is out of his hands he can't do anything to win you a game. He has average speed at best. He has 1 gold glove but he isn't going to dazzle you with his defensive skills or range. Plus there will always be the question did he or didn't he?
The best player i've ever seen play is Rickey Henderson. He could beat you with his bat or his legs and early in his career he was a very good center fielder, until he stopped caring about defense. He was a winner and he played hard. It was really something to see Henderson get on first base late in a game with a tie score. I once read a great quote by Pat Tabler saying that he remembers playing a game in Oakland and Henderson getting on first base in the bottom of the ninth inning with nobody out. Tabler said he and all of his teammates knew once Henderson got on base the game was over. Sure enough he stole 2nd, then 3rd, and scored on a sacrifice fly to win the game.
Those are the types of players that are the best in my opinion, and they are very rare these days. Jeter is no Henderson in that respect but he is that type of player. Sure Jeter plays on the Yankees but you have to remember Jeter helped build the Yankee dynasty of the last 15 years. Him and the money. I don't think it is coincidence that the Yankees started winning again once Jeter arrived and played his first full season.
If I was building a team given the choice between a 27 year old Jeter and a Pujols at any age I would pick Jeter hands down as he is a rare breed where as I could get a similar player as far as numbers as pujols (like Fielder or Howard).
docisin Wrote:Plus there will always be the question did he or didn't he?
The best player i've ever seen play is Rickey Henderson.
If you're going to hold the "did he or didn't he?" question over one player - at least be consistent.
From what I've read, there's a lot more evidence out there connecting Rickey to PED's than there is Pujols.
But the PED discussion aside, I agree Rickey, even now as a HOF-er, doesn't get the credit he deserves in the 'greatest players' discussions.
RiceLynnEvans75 Wrote:Somebody, I forget who, won a GG for first base when they played more games at DH than they did in the field. How does that happen? (Palmeiro sticks out in my mind but it might not be him, I'll check later.)
The only award that matter is the World Series. It's the ultimate team award.
EDITED TO ADD: Yes, Palmeiro won the GG at first base in 1999 while only playing 28 games in the field the whole year AND being named the leagues outstanding DH. I think they actually take offense into consideration when choosing the gold glove winner, at least partially, which is just wrong.
Same as Chipper losing the GG to Wright in 07 when Wright had a lot more errors at the position
Wright won because he had a .320+ average with 30+ homers and 100+ RBI's which is wrong as it is the GG not a MVP or Silver Slugger
docisin Wrote:
Plus there will always be the question did he or didn't he?
Can be said about anyone... no true way of knowing