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1.Biggio-- yes HOF, 3000 hit club should get him in, as well as playing several positions (a few games in the outfield). Heart of the Astros in the 90's and the top of the 2nd base position for hits and doubles for much of the decade.

2.Bagwell-- yes, HOF I'm biased but with Biggio the heart of many good Astro teams in the 90's. Numbers were deminished by three (3) broken hands or wrists from hbp... plus the short season in 94. He was a fan favorite and always good with the media this always helps when the writers cast votes.

3. Palmiero -- I'm still on the fence, the numbers equal HOF and the action (use of steriods) just does not seem to fit the character of the man. Plus why take them when you are past the 500 HR platuea and a few hits shy of 3000 (eventually passing that platuea as well) Home runs were always refered to as wall scrapers, so I am just not convinced here. The samples and testing being what they are (see Ryan Braun) I am just not sure of the whole process and how on the level it is. Esp when names are leaked but no one is supposed to have a name list because they are supposed to a number and a double blind test result.

4) Blylevin is in so the argument ends there. Deserving or not he's there and All-Star appearneces are many times about popularity and fan favorites vs the best years or part years a player is having. Many a good first half has fallen to the likes of stars of the game not having a great first half.

5) the Big Hurt gets in .... As He was the modern day Jimmy Foxx for the 90's check the nubmers and you'll see how similar they are.

Great question/contest you'll get a lot of answers.
(10-04-2012 02:58 PM)mr pink Wrote: [ -> ]1. is craig biggio a hall of famer. i would say yes. not a first ballot, but maybe a few years yes. 3,000 hits players always make the hall. not to mention, he was a 4 time gold glove second baseman. he'll be in the hall, but maybe after the first 2 years.
2. is jeff bagwell a hall of famer. back in the early 90s it was the killer bees. bagwell, biggio, bell. its hard not to believe that bags wouldnt be in the hall. over 400 home runs. again, i dont see him as a first ballot, maybe a few years on the ballot. the 90s was such a "damaged" era with the steriod era, id see him in the hall before id see mcgwire, bonds, palmario.
3. is rafael palmario a hall of famer. 3,000 hits. 500 home runs. that is an amazing feat.that being said, he should be in the hall. yes the steroid era tarnished his career. plus he didnt help himself in front of the senate commitee. like all the others, bonds, clemens, mcgwire, eventually they will make the hall, but its gonna be a long, long, time. bags and biggio will be in the hall before these guys will.
4. does bert blyleving belong in the hall. 3,000 strikeouts. 16 pitchers have done it. and it may not happen again. so the answer is, yes. he belongs there. as does smoltz and maddux.
5.frank thomas. my all time favorite player. 5 time all star. 2 time mvp. comeback player of the year. .301 career batting average. over 500 home runs. 1600 walks. thats right, he was walked over 1600 times in his career. he was the most feared hitter in baseball in the 90s. he wasnt the best fielder, but he could hit. the white sox also had robin ventura at the time. a pretty nice 1 2 punch in anyones line up. theres no doubt that frank is a first time hall of famer. and i think, he might be on the ballot next year.
well theres my opinion. thanks for the post.

I love the mention of walks for Thomas. It's a clear cut fact that he walked so much due to fear. If guys had thrown him a pitch what could he have done with it? Wow, almost scary to think about.
1. Is Craig Biggio a first ballot HOFer?
I think Biggio will get in, but not necessarily on the 1st ballot. 3000 hits, team leader etc etc.

2. Is Jeff Bagwell a HOFer?
To me he was one of the most feared batters from his era, may get into the hof but never 1st ballot.

3. The only player with 3000 hits who has been on a HOF ballot and not currently made it in is Rafael Palmiero. Is he a HOFer? Do the steroid allegations end his chances? Did he even intentioanlly use?
To me Palmeiro is a lock for the hof but the steroid issue takes him out of the race. If he gets in, then aroid, mcgwire etc all deserve to be in. You cant punish a few.

4. Does Bert Blyleven deserve to be in the HOF? He is already a hofer so some people who know abotu the game thought he was deserving of being there. so yes he should be a hofer.
5. Lastly, but certainly not least. Does my boy Frank Thomas deserve to be a HOFer?
Of course the big hurt is a 1st ballot hofer in my humble opinion. He was probably the most feared batter in his days along with griffey. His presence at home plate was frightening!!! He is a lock for the hall....

5. I have another, what about Omar Vizquel??? 24 seasons, just short of 3000 hits for a non offensive shortstop. Best in the game in fielding, how many is it?? 13 gold gloves??? thats insane!!! However, im not sure if he is a hofer or not. what do you think???
(10-04-2012 05:00 PM)alfredoleal2001 Wrote: [ -> ]1. Is Craig Biggio a first ballot HOFer?
I think Biggio will get in, but not necessarily on the 1st ballot. 3000 hits, team leader etc etc.

2. Is Jeff Bagwell a HOFer?
To me he was one of the most feared batters from his era, may get into the hof but never 1st ballot.

3. The only player with 3000 hits who has been on a HOF ballot and not currently made it in is Rafael Palmiero. Is he a HOFer? Do the steroid allegations end his chances? Did he even intentioanlly use?
To me Palmeiro is a lock for the hof but the steroid issue takes him out of the race. If he gets in, then aroid, mcgwire etc all deserve to be in. You cant punish a few.

4. Does Bert Blyleven deserve to be in the HOF? He is already a hofer so some people who know abotu the game thought he was deserving of being there. so yes he should be a hofer.
5. Lastly, but certainly not least. Does my boy Frank Thomas deserve to be a HOFer?
Of course the big hurt is a 1st ballot hofer in my humble opinion. He was probably the most feared batter in his days along with griffey. His presence at home plate was frightening!!! He is a lock for the hall....

5. I have another, what about Omar Vizquel??? 24 seasons, just short of 3000 hits for a non offensive shortstop. Best in the game in fielding, how many is it?? 13 gold gloves??? thats insane!!! However, im not sure if he is a hofer or not. what do you think???

Omar? Hmmm...good one. I only mentioned guys who are on the ballot. Omar is 5 years away at least. This question no doubt arises though. Although if he gets 3000 it's a lock. By the way your right Bagwell won't be first ballot cause he's already missed that.
(10-04-2012 05:44 PM)dbroockerd Wrote: [ -> ]Omar? Hmmm...good one. I only mentioned guys go are on the ballot. Omar is 5 years away at least. This question no doubt arises though. Although if he gets 3000 it's a lock.

Yeah he is 5 years away from the ballot..... I think he just finished his career with 2877 hits......
(10-04-2012 05:52 PM)alfredoleal2001 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah he is 5 years away from the ballot..... I think he just finished his career with 2877 hits......

I thought he may get picked up and someone pay him a bit to play a back up and have him draw fans for 3000 hits but the fact is he is still not in striking distance IMO unless he became a full time starter.
1. Biggio will definitely go in within three tries. First ballot is likely, but the lack of postseason appearences could drop him to second or third ballot.
2. Bagwell is a Hall of Famer. Maybe not soon, but he'll get in at some point. His stats don't leap out at you but they are good to great which will eventually get him in.
3.Palmiero's steroid use dooms him. Whether he did or not, people think he did so he's probably out.
4. Blyleven should be in. He was only 13 wins away from the 300 win plateau. He had lots of homers and losses, but being so close to 300 wins will get him in. My guess is sometime between 2015 and 2018.
5. Thomas has to be in first ballot. Simply too good a hitter not to be. He was also doing that clean in a dirty era, which is impressive. He was as good, if not better than, the juicers, but playing steroid-free.
(10-04-2012 08:56 PM)nyyankeesfan28 Wrote: [ -> ]1. Biggio will definitely go in within three tries. First ballot is likely, but the lack of postseason appearences could drop him to second or third ballot.
2. Bagwell is a Hall of Famer. Maybe not soon, but he'll get in at some point. His stats don't leap out at you but they are good to great which will eventually get him in.
3.Palmiero's steroid use dooms him. Whether he did or not, people think he did so he's probably out.
4. Blyleven should be in. He was only 13 wins away from the 300 win plateau. He had lots of homers and losses, but being so close to 300 wins will get him in. My guess is sometime between 2015 and 2018.
5. Thomas has to be in first ballot. Simply too good a hitter not to be. He was also doing that clean in a dirty era, which is impressive. He was as good, if not better than, the juicers, but playing steroid-free.

Should I disqualify you from the contest for not knowing that Blyleven is a HOFer already? He will definitely be in by 2015-2018 because he went in in 2011.

I won't hold it against ya! Haha!
Okay. Here we go. Hopefully I don't hurt any feelings.

1. Biggio. A shoe in, I think. I would personally consider him a first ballot nominee, but I don't see that happening. His .281 average is modest, but maintained over 18 years, still respectable. 3060 his basically seals the deal, although, with "only" 291 homers, not a power hitter per say. Moving from catcher to second base its rather remarkable, and 7 all star appearances and 4 gold gloves are nothing to scoff at. He IS also the only player with 3000 hits, 600 doubles, 400 stolen bases and 250 hone runs. Interesting side note, he hit his 3000th hit the same day The Big Hurt hit his 500th hone run.

2. Bagwell. Here's where it gets ugly. No. Not before many, many other players. His career average of .297 is astounding, but his other numbers barely stand out at all. 1529 hits? Maybe if 500 of them were out of the park. I know, 449 is pretty darn close, but it'll also only get you CLOSE, to the Hall of Fame.

3. Palmeiro. Won't go in immediately because of the juice, but deserves it. 3020 hits, 569 home runs, 1835 RBI. If that was it, he'd be in. 4 time all star, 3 time gold glove. Sold. Also, most games played EVER with no visit to the World Series (2831). That just takes dedication and love of the game.

4. Blyleven. More hurt feelings. Just not good enough. Too late for this discussion now, but I'll still say it. Yes, 3701 strike outs, but over the course of 22 seasons! His record of 287-250? Just not good enough. 3.31 ERA, decent, respectable, but not enough to make it all worthwhile. What I consider his stand out achievement was in 1985, when he pitched damn close to 300 innings with 24 (that's not a typo, it's really 24) complete games. And now we look at Verlander like he's a marathon runner. That's intense, but it doesn't make him worthy of a Hall mod.

5. Thomas. No hurt feelings, here, just The Big Hurt. I think you only added this question to hear all the great things people had to say about your boy, because I don't think anyone would argue with him being a first ballot entry. So, instead of trying to persuade a group that is surely on my side here, I'll just spout some stats so we can all drool. Career batting average of .301, 2468 hits, 1704 RBI, 521 HE.
ONLY player with SEVEN consecutive seasons with .300 BA, 100 BB, 100 Runs, 100 RBI, and 20 HR. Sound impressive? Yes. Then remember that one of those consecutive years was 1994, when Thomas played only 113 games due to the strike. That's almost one hit, one run, one RBI, AND one walk PER GAME. Oh, and pitchers feared him. So much so that he walked 1667 times. All this with no steroid stain. He better be in.

Hope I didn't make anyone cry, thanks.
(10-05-2012 12:43 AM)ajcdj1012 Wrote: [ -> ]Okay. Here we go. Hopefully I don't hurt any feelings.

1. Biggio. A shoe in, I think. I would personally consider him a first ballot nominee, but I don't see that happening. His .281 average is modest, but maintained over 18 years, still respectable. 3060 his basically seals the deal, although, with "only" 291 homers, not a power hitter per say. Moving from catcher to second base its rather remarkable, and 7 all star appearances and 4 gold gloves are nothing to scoff at. He IS also the only player with 3000 hits, 600 doubles, 400 stolen bases and 250 hone runs. Interesting side note, he hit his 3000th hit the same day The Big Hurt hit his 500th hone run.

2. Bagwell. Here's where it gets ugly. No. Not before many, many other players. His career average of .297 is astounding, but his other numbers barely stand out at all. 1529 hits? Maybe if 500 of them were out of the park. I know, 449 is pretty darn close, but it'll also only get you CLOSE, to the Hall of Fame.

3. Palmeiro. Won't go in immediately because of the juice, but deserves it. 3020 hits, 569 home runs, 1835 RBI. If that was it, he'd be in. 4 time all star, 3 time gold glove. Sold. Also, most games played EVER with no visit to the World Series (2831). That just takes dedication and love of the game.

4. Blyleven. More hurt feelings. Just not good enough. Too late for this discussion now, but I'll still say it. Yes, 3701 strike outs, but over the course of 22 seasons! His record of 287-250? Just not good enough. 3.31 ERA, decent, respectable, but not enough to make it all worthwhile. What I consider his stand out achievement was in 1985, when he pitched damn close to 300 innings with 24 (that's not a typo, it's really 24) complete games. And now we look at Verlander like he's a marathon runner. That's intense, but it doesn't make him worthy of a Hall mod.

5. Thomas. No hurt feelings, here, just The Big Hurt. I think you only added this question to hear all the great things people had to say about your boy, because I don't think anyone would argue with him being a first ballot entry. So, instead of trying to persuade a group that is surely on my side here, I'll just spout some stats so we can all drool. Career batting average of .301, 2468 hits, 1704 RBI, 521 HE.
ONLY player with SEVEN consecutive seasons with .300 BA, 100 BB, 100 Runs, 100 RBI, and 20 HR. Sound impressive? Yes. Then remember that one of those consecutive years was 1994, when Thomas played only 113 games due to the strike. That's almost one hit, one run, one RBI, AND one walk PER GAME. Oh, and pitchers feared him. So much so that he walked 1667 times. All this with no steroid stain. He better be in.

Hope I didn't make anyone cry, thanks.


Well first let me say I think you have the Bagwell numbers wrong. His hit count is 2314 not 1529. I just thought the extra 500 were worth noting.

I didn't post to hear the comments about my boy. I posted to see the different points of view for him to be in or out. Your points on Thomas though are amazing. I always look for something that sets a player apart and makes him stand out. The comments on Blyleven in his 24 CG season changes my perspective some on him. So well done! The points on Thomas make him unarguable in my eyes. I had no doubt but I seriously questioned first ballot. I no longer have doubt. Its not that I didn't know the numbers but to hear it put the way you did makes it seem amazing.
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