Exclusive EverQuest II Team Interview

Mar 10 2009 1:32PM

By Stephanie Morrow PHOTO: From left to right are: Joy Parks (Audio Director), Noel Walling (Game Designer), Tim Heydelaar (Senior Artist), Bruce Ferguson (Senior Producer), Joshua Kriegshauser (Technical Director) and Bill Yeats (Art Director).

I had an amazing opportunity to fly down to San Diego to interview various SOE game teams, including members from the EQ1 team, EQ2 team, Vanguard and general community, as well as speak with Rich Waters, the creative director of the EQ franchise. The following is the interview with the EQ2 team. To start the interview off, I had everyone go around and introduce themselves, including their names, their job titles, and how long they've been with SOE.

Joy: I'm Joy Parks and I started with EQ2 back in March of 2004 as a copy editor for all of the dialog that we put in the game. Currently I'm a project manager for the audio department.

Tim: I'm Tim Heydelaar. I've been with Sony for almost six years now and I started off on EQ2 as an environment artist, and now I'm the environment lead.

Noel: I'm Noel Walling. I've been working at Sony for 6+ years now. I joined the EQ2 team a year before launch and I'm currently the lead game designer.

Bill: My name is Bill Yeats. I started a little over seven years ago and I joined EQ2, like Noel, a year before it launched. I'm currently the lead character artist on it.

Joshua: My name is Joshua Kriegshauser. I think I'm the baby of this group here, as I started almost four years ago – about six months after the game launched. I started as a senior programmer and now I'm the technical director in charge of the programming team.

Bruce: I'm Bruce Ferguson. I started with SOE nine years ago, and joined the EQ2 team about a year and a half before they shipped. At the time I was one of the producers – we had several – and now I'm the senior producer on the product.

With EQ heading into its 10th year, can you see EQ2 heading the same way and keeping that sort of longevity?

Bruce: I see no reason why it shouldn't. I think the game design is solid; we continue to make tweaks to it, sure, but I think that the foundation is great and the art is spectacular. I think the players really enjoy it. I see no reason why we couldn't hit 15, or even 20 years. I think our technology is slightly different then EQ's, so we have some advantages over them merely because we were developed later. There was also a lot of knowledge that they imparted onto us, so I don't see any reason why we couldn't last 10 years or more.

Noel: The most important aspect really is the community; as long as the community continues to support us, then we'll be here.

Bruce: Absolutely.

Joshua: No pressure community!

Looking back, is it surprising at all to see how long these games have been around for and how well they've done?

Tim: I can't say I'm really surprised. These are online worlds, communities and friendships, and friendships don't break apart that easily. It's easy to come back and just reconnect with old friends or old places.

Bill: I think it's also because we are continually developing new stuff for it. If you contrast it with some other games, they come out and then they just sort of flat line, whereas we – in addition to expansions – are constantly doing online updates. A lot of people (games) do live bug fixes, but we're also constantly pushing new events and expansions as well as our adventure packs. We're going to continue to keep doing that as long as the community wants us to.

Do you think one of the main factors in keeping people around is those live events and additions to gameplay?

Bruce: Sure. The game stays fresh, there are new things for them to do, there's excitement, and there are new people coming in. I certainly agree with Noel that community is one of the biggest draws, but we wouldn't have that community if we didn't continue to support it by releasing new content all of the time.

Joshua: Another thing that is interesting is that a lot of players in these games have been playing the entire time; they've been around forever. For a lot of people, there were not very many options for people when EQ launched if you wanted to play in an online world. For a lot of people, this is their first MMO and people tend to think of their first game fondly; it's like your first love. We have a lot of people who have come back and a lot of people who have stayed the entire time. Everyone wants to remember what it was like 10 years ago.

What has your favorite EQ2 event been, whether it's something you worked on, or something you played in the game?

Joy: A couple of things stick out. When we did Echoes of Faydwer, I loved the lore – there were some really fun characters. Even with EQ2 at launch, the voiceover on that was massive, it was incredible to see all of these characters come to life, and it was a really ambitious goal – we tried to have voices for every single NPC, and just seeing that come together was really incredible. Also with Shard of Fear, we only did a few voiceovers, but there are some really cool characters. Those are just some of my experiences.

Tim: I think in terms of live events, aside from Halloween because I just love Halloween, my favorite would have to be Frostfell. The first year we released the winter wonderland zone and I got to come up with the maze—

I hate that maze…

Tim: Yeah, it took quite a bit of time to come up with a layout that was hard enough and yet could also be solved. It was great to read the feedback from those who had gone through it and then those who were unable to get through it. On the one hand you're feeling sorry for them, and on the other hand you're thinking, "YES! I did it right." Those types of live events are always fun.

Noel: There are so many different things I've worked on and done. I've had fun going through different content with guilds – I think I've been in two or three relatively high end guilds at this point that have no idea who I am. So it's always fun to hear people talk about what I've been working on or what the team has been working on. I really had a lot of fun working on the prismatic quest line with another designer too. I did most of the raid encounters for that and worked on doing a lot of the quest line stuff.

Bill: As far as in-game stuff as a player, probably my fondest memory is being killed by Doomsquall. It used to be broken and you couldn't see him from far away. You'd be harvesting and then you'd suddenly see everyone running away. You'd turn around and you'd see this giant water elemental standing there and all you could do was scream! I think it's frustrating for a lot of people when they die, but I always thought it was a lot of fun. As far as stuff I've worked on, I think the first expansion was the most fun. When we – Tim's predecessor and I – came up with the idea for it, it was really cool because it was this brave new world; it had a little EQ in it, but we were sort of making it up too. It was really exciting. I think the results of the first expansion were quite good.

Joshua: I'd have to second Bills comment about Desert of Flames. It was a lot of fun to work on, and for me that's when I joined the team. Second only to the launch of the game was the launch of the first expansion. There were a lot of technical obstacles to overcome there, and there were a couple of late nights trying to figure out how to do things, but the way the team chemistry worked out was amazing. When it finally did go live, the best part was watching the player feedback. As far as in-game events, one of my favorite events, which was one of the first events we did, was the construction of the Nektulos griffin tower. It was unique in that it was world changing, it was a permanent edition to the world, and people really banded together.

Bruce: Much more quickly then we expected.

Joshua: Yeah, MUCH more quickly. That was a good time. As far as stuff that I've worked on, there have just been so many things throughout the years. One of the most technically challenging things that I've worked on is the quest sharing system that we have. The user interface portion of it is very simple, but what happens behind the scenes is very complicated and very challenging. It was very challenging to work on so it's one of my favorite things that I've participated in.

Bruce: For me as far as in-game events, the one that really sticks out in my mind is actually the end of beta, just before we launched. We dropped a dragon into Antonica – Venekor. The frame rate dropped to about zero because there were I think 250-300 people trying to attack it all at the same time. It was just madness. I also think the launch day was kind of spectacular, when we opened the servers and saw people coming in for the first time. There was a large group of the management staff in a conference room watching figures on the wall and making sure the servers were up, and the team was busy looking at stuff and making sure that nothing broke. It was an exciting day! We spent 12-14 hours the first day just watching numbers, making sure that things were right, and double-checking things when something would pop up; it was one of those experiences you'll just never have unless you launch another game. The second one is of course the launching of TSO. The Shadow Odyssey was the first expansion that I launched as Senior Producer, and it was spectacular. All of the credit goes to the team that worked on it; I just basically stood on top and pointed in different directions for them, but they did all of the hard work. To see that go out, to see the sales that it's had and the impact for the players, has been spectacular; just a ton of fun.

How does it feel to know that you've affected people's lives, people that you've never even met, through your video game?

Tim: That's what we're creating: a platform for that to happen. It's not just about pulling out a sword and cutting down everything in front of you. You want to have someone to talk to and chat with at the end of the dungeon – I've had some of the best talks ever in MMOs. When people get together at Fan Faires and guild events, you know you've done something right.

Bill: A member of our team made an armor set, and then at Fan Faire I saw a guy wearing a costume based on that armor set that he made and I was like ‘wow' – you just realize that the guy really liked what he found and decided to make this costume for Fan Faire. It's cool. It's like people indirectly look up to us.

Joshua: It's a lot of fun when we get to go to Fan Faire and talk to the people. Communication with the players is really what makes this job number one. If you can go to Fan Faire and just chat with the people there, you realize that they enjoy the work that you're doing and they want to talk about the experiences that they've had. I mean, that's amazing. The feelings that come out of that are incredible.

On the flip side of that, how do you deal with people who perhaps do not enjoy the work that you do, or may have an issue with things that have gone on? Does it bother you?

Bruce: I think it depends on the method in which it's presented to us. There's a difference between "I don't like that change" and "I think you're stupid." I think we're all a little sensitive. I have no objection if someone wants to address a problem in the game. To me, yeah we're all human beings, we make mistakes or errors in judgment, and there's certainly nothing in the game that I don't think can't be made better. So I really have no objection if someone says, "You know, I really don't like how this particular system works, and by the way here are a couple of ideas that I have that might make it better." The difficulty with that of course is that the perspective is often different from a player then it is from a developer, but at least they're trying to address the problem and provide a solution. It's the ones who just say, "Hey I don't like bald guys because they're idiots and that damn Bruce is completely worthless.' I would rather have them attack the gameplay then me personally because I can fix the gameplay; it's a lot harder to fix me. Constructive criticism points us in a direction to look at so we apply the creativity that we have on the team to figure out a better solution for that particular problem.

Bill: Just to add one thing, when people start to flame things, what happens is if you're reading the post, you'll just discount the post.

Bruce: Whether or not the facts are correct.

Bill: Right, so lets say they mention that run speed is messed up, and then it degrades to where they're saying, "Those idiots at SOE don't know what they're talking about." No, we do know what we're talking about, and there's a reason why it's this way. Whether it's a situation, or we haven't gotten around to fixing it yet, we don't have unlimited resources. When we first launched it was tough.

Noel: Nobody is really like that once we meet them. Nobody is really like how they post on the forums when they are at Fan Faire. Sometimes they even buy us drinks. It really is about trying to separate why someone is upset from their actual message; trying to distill down what's going on and making them upset.

Bruce: On the other hand, you're also seeing that they're upset about the game; they are passionate about the game and that's a great thing for us.

Is there going to be any sort of progression server for EQ2 like there was for EQ1 in the future?

Bill: We've talked about alternate rule types.

Bruce: Yeah.

Bill: I don't know if it would ever end up being just like the EQ servers.

Bruce: It's something we've discussed and continue to discuss. It's difficult to say yes or no to that. It would require a lot of effort. The concept is a good one and we continue to discuss it as a possibility if we can find the time to do something like that.

Because EQ2 is based off of EQ, do you find it restrains or restricts what you can do in the game in regards to lore and creativity with it?

Noel: Yes and no. A lot of times when you're working on lore, it's nice to have a road map. It's easy to find little avenues and things that haven't been explored yet, but it's nice to have a theme that people are interested in, that you can delve into, and that lets you create little bits that they haven't seen or heard of. So yes it restricts us a little, but we have ultimate authority over what happens in EQ2. You have a definite beginning and a definite end. It's been more of a help then anything. A couple of times we were a little shaky, like when EQ did the whole Mayong line at the same time we were doing EoF (Echoes of Faydwer); how do we work with that?

Tim: We get the same sort of quandary in the art division as well; sometimes we just want to shoot off and have some fun. Like Noel said, we're EQ2 so it's really open-ended. Generally when we start work based on something in EQ, we really try to find a way to deviate from the EQ path but try to include the bits and pieces that people remember. TSO is a fine example of that, where Innothule looks nothing like the original, but it still has enough rooted in there that the tie-in is there. It gives us a chance to make it feel totally different for players but not totally foreign.

Bruce: I would say that we're trying to evoke the memory, rather then trying to copy.

Joshua: I think Kunark was an excellent example of that. Once we announced RoK, players were just instantly excited.

What inspires you through your creative process - is it stuff around you, stuff at home? What influences what we see in-game?

Bruce: I would say all of those things affect us. We are creatures that are impinged on by multiple areas and I think if you look at any of the teams, it's not just the designers off by themselves and the artists off by themselves or the coders off by themselves. We get together in meetings and brainstorm – what about this, what about that, books we read, movies we see, stuff from EQ, stuff that people post on the boards, etc. Especially that last one – we get a lot of input from our players. It's just a matter of finding out what the data is and then where it fits into the greater scheme of things.

How did you get into the industry?

Joy: I have a writing background, but I didn't have a gaming background before this, and as I said I started out as a copy editor and then it was really trial by fire. I was moving out to San Diego, I met with one of the associate producers at the time, and I just started out on a contract basis. I was just slammed though; I had so many scripts that it was really, really overwhelming, but I'm glad it happened that way because I didn't have time to think, "Oh my god I can't believe I'm doing this!" It was really just incredible to be a part of it. So that's how I started off, and it's just been an amazing experience.

Tim: Mine was about as lucky as you could possibly get. Right out of high school I was looking for a job and my mom, bless her soul, was also looking for a job for me – you know, so I would get out of the house (laughing). She actually ran across an ad for game testers at a small company here in San Diego. I wrote up a resume, and apparently it was one hell of a resume. I got interviewed, and I got in. So I started as a game tester in 1993. A couple of years after that they moved a few of us out into their level design group and I've been doing that ever since.

Noel: Well, I actually started as a GM here at SOE. Before that I was just in college basically doing graphic design work, freelancing, and that kind of stuff. A year later I got pulled over to work on EQ2 and I've been doing this ever since. Really I'm sort of the background of the player; that's how I started and that's what I keep doing.

Bill: Let's see, I was working in a software shop and they used to have reps come in. The next thing I knew I was in an internship, and then I was a contractor and got a full time gig. 18 years later, here I am.

Joshua: I quite literally hacked my way into the game industry. I was working for a company doing programming on credit card servers and it was really boring. I was playing a different game at the time and I was really curious to see how it worked, so I started hacking around in the game and managed to figure out some very interesting stuff about why parts of the game were not working. So when the company put in that they were looking for a server programmer, I put in my resume and passed their tech test. In a stroke of fate I guess, my company, which had never sent me on a business trip before, sent me on a business trip to a city where this other company was, so I went down there and had dinner with some guys from this other game company. They grilled me for three hours and liked what I had to say, and I promised that if they hired me I'd fix the problems in their game in two weeks. They hired me, and I fixed the problems in their game in two weeks.

Bruce: I was working in the hotel business for quite a few years managing several properties and at the same time I was playing a text-based MUD online. The mud was on a system that was based in Washington DC, and it turned out that because of where it was based, a lot of players were local. I met up with several of them, and it turned out that several of them were also GMs in the game as well, which at that time was kind of a different job than what we consider GMs in EQ2. A GM in that game was much more of a game designer and less of a customer service person. After talking with them – I was a relatively high level by then – they encouraged me to apply to be a contractor as a GM where I would work from home for three hours a week. I was doing that when I changed jobs from hotel management to mortgage banking. I found out that I really didn't enjoy foreclosing on people a whole bunch. They had an opening at the corporate offices for this particular company. They were looking for people to help with a customer service solution internal rather then relying on all of these other people, and they also needed a billing system, and since I had all that experience in the hotel business, I went out and interviewed and they hired me. I stayed there for about three years and then a friend of mine joined the SOE team and told me that I should join if I really wanted to be in the gaming business. So I interviewed and got hired up here. It's been a fun ride and I'm glad I'm not doing foreclosures anymore.

As a closure, do you have any advice to give to people who want to get into the industry, be it as a coder or customer relations or any other job?

Noel: On the design side, you need to be passionate and know what you're talking about. Be able to describe styles of gameplay and how they work and why they work. There's no one path into the industry – everyone's path is different. Some get in through QA, while some get in through a lucky break because they were recommended by somebody and that somebody happened to know a lead designer. It's very different.

Bruce: I would also suggest, from a design side, an ability to look at the game as a whole rather then your particular character, which is very hard to do. It was a major adjustment for me when I first started.

Bill: One thing I'd add is that it's a lot more technical then people think. This is both on the art side and the design side.

Noel: You have to be able to pick up on new tools quickly. No gaming company uses the same tools.

Joshua: You have to be passionate about programming to be a coder in the game industry. You have to understand how computers work at a low level.

Bruce: You need to be passionate. We work a lot of hours. We are dedicated to making sure the game runs as well as it can, looks as well as it can, and plays as well as it can. Some people have the impression that working in a game company is a lot of goofing off and playing games all day long. It's a business though. The ultimate goal is to put a roof over our heads and food on the table. It's like a regular job, but with even more stuff and benefits from it. I think as a team, and as a company, there's probably 30-40% more dedication than I've seen in any other environment. People are willing to stay extra hours at night to get something done, or come in on weekends. It's not like we're out for four hour lunches every day. We don't ride scooters in the hallway. There seems to be a perception that working in a gaming company is just all fun and games, but it's not. It's really a business, it's hard work, and the people who work here are very passionate about making sure we make every effort to make sure that the game stays fun. We'll go to all sorts of bizarre ends to make sure that happens. If you don't have the passion and drive to do that sort of stuff, then it may not be the right environment for you.

Tim: Internship programs are another good way from the art perspective. We've gotten a lot of good people in through them and it gives people the experience they need. Getting your foot in even at that level is huge. You just have to find someone who's willing.

Bill: If you can work for free, at least get some experience with published work. Working on something that's published is huge.

Joy: Flexibility and passion to help other people is key. If you go in with one skill set, be flexible to help other people and expand on that. It opens a lot of doors moving forward.

Bruce: I think the one thing we forgot to mention is that you've got to be crazy.

(Everyone chimes in) Spelling! One thing that really helps is spelling.

Thank you again everyone from the EQ2 dev team for answering my questions and sharing your passion for the game with me. I really appreciate being granted such an amazing opportunity. I'm looking forward to seeing you all at Fan Faire!

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